Kipchoge needs to win New York and/or Boston (real marathons) to secure his legacy as the GOAT

Querfeldein wrote:

There has not been a stacked field in Boston or NYC for a long time. Kipchoge runs against the best fields in London and occasionally Berlin.

About New York, I wonder if cancelling the race in 2012 (after hurricane Sandy) tarnished the race's reputation for elites. The course was runnable, a lot of money could have been made for relief aid, but the race was cancelled at the last minute for (as far as I could tell) optics. Tough on overseas runners, who had spent thousands of dollars for flights and hotels. And it must have been tough on elites who had spent months training for it.

Compare that to Boston, and the nor'easter of 2008. Race director Dave McGillvray said they'd given some thought to cancelling the race, but figured most people would have just gone out and run it anyways.

A final thought on Boston. As light as the elite fields may have been recently, it is still the greatest race on earth for those of us who are slightly OC, who go out every day trying to get a little fitter, a little faster, who are thrilled to get that often elusive Boston qualifying time, who line up in Hopkinton and run until our balls (or boobs) fall off, no matter the weather. Who love the course, the Wellesley scream tunnel, the Newton hills, the crazy, crazy crowds. Who glance over their shoulder coming down Boylston, to honor the bombing victims.

As my girlfriend remarked last year, you don't see many fat people at a Boston marathon expo.

Unless he wants to, it won't mean anything in his already legendary career. You want to call the Olympic marathon watered down? suit yourself, he got gold while at it, non-paced. The rest is inconsequential.

Not An Expert wrote:

[quote]MrStephen wrote:

And definitely, Kipchoge’s top two priorities from here on in are the WR and an unpaced win or two (with New York being the most-impressive venue for it), either of which done in an impressive fashion will make him tougher to dethrone as the GOAT (and BOTH of which would firmly ensconce him for the foreseeable future).

WRONG! Very wrong! His top priority is a second gold at the Olympics marathon. You'll see.

I hate to say it, but, Boston and NYC are now JV marathons.

The one and only GOAT Sammy Wanjiru, will never be surpassed , not with WRs, sub 2's with pacers or anything like that, because he was a racer, in any conditions, hot Beijing, fast early pace London 2009 - "why not a 4:25 19th mile then, who's with me?" - Chicago 2009 and the epic 2010 after a stomach virus, toe to toe like the rumble in the jungle.

Who knows why he was killed?

Have a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p85vVmf36MU

, and stop drooling over these pussies. :-)

Keepin' it real wrote:

Kipchoge

Representing Kenya

Olympic Games:

Gold medal – first place 2016 Rio de Janeiro Marathon

World Marathon Majors:

Gold medal – first place 2018 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2017 Berlin Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2016 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2015 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2015 Berlin Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2014 Chicago Marathon

Pretty much says it all

I can't wait to see Bekele kick everyone's as. He has been unlucky with getting sick in races. He is probably laughing at the 2:04 yesterday. He is a 2:02 guy. He will prove again, that he is the GOAT. Look at Stallone, he said it's not about how hard you can hit, but about how hard you can get hid. He made an epic comeback. Bekele will silence all the haters here.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Keepin' it real wrote:

Kipchoge

Representing Kenya

Olympic Games:

Gold medal – first place 2016 Rio de Janeiro Marathon

World Marathon Majors:

Gold medal – first place 2018 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2017 Berlin Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2016 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2015 London Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2015 Berlin Marathon

Gold medal – first place 2014 Chicago Marathon

Pretty much says it all

All the majors effectively time trials. Has he ever had to duel and make multiple surges , especially last third of race?

Ouch! Eliud Kipchoge, "London is the highest organised race in the whole world."

https://mobile.twitter.com/LondonMarathon/status/988041478529220609/video/1

I Am Sam wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Pretty much says it all

All the majors effectively time trials. Has he ever had to duel and make multiple surges , especially last third of race?

Ummmm, the Rio Olympics?

vivalarepublica wrote:

We know Kipchoge is unbeatable in these paced marathon parades. He only has won one unpaced marathon, the Rio Olympic marathon, which had watered-down competition.

It's high time that he pays a visit to New York this fall and wins a real marathon rather than these glorified parades. Get on it, NYRR.

You're right. It's an absolute scandal that he hasn't met your criteria for being the GOAT

Hsjdjdj wrote:

j/o lene wrote:

And that's why you're a jackazz. New York is, at best, a real RACE - winds, hills, sometimes cold, others a bit warm.

Why the eff should anyone care about these glorified time trials? You must LOVE flat golf couse xc too.

Chicago is NOT a real marathon, pacers or not.

Kipchoge needs New York for his legacy., FACT, and he obviously has a stronger shot at winning then-- hah hah-- Rupp ever will.

Kipchoge is a lock to win Boston or NYC.

As I said, I’m ok with him running NYC. He should run Berlin in September, decompress, and run NYC at 80% effort just to get the win — run 2:08:30.

It would be a waste of a training cycle to train solely for Boston or NYC at this point.

^This

It would be a total waste of time to run Boston or NYC when he is still good enough to go after the WR. Come back in a few years and win them.

I Am Sam wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Pretty much says it all

All the majors effectively time trials. Has he ever had to duel and make multiple surges , especially last third of race?

Just because he has a different racing strategy says nothing about his skill. Kipchoge doesn't care about surges and tactics, he just goes out hard and dares anyone to follow him. Remind you of someone?

vivalarepublica wrote:

Sara Palin wrote:

Thread made it to the front page and an article. Plus we are on the third page. Other than repeatedly posting on his own thread, it's pretty good.

6/10

I give myself at least a 5/10.

It is an unwritten literally golden rule on letsrun, you cannot rate your own thread.

Glorfindel wrote:

Hsjdjdj wrote:

Kipchoge is a lock to win Boston or NYC.

As I said, I’m ok with him running NYC. He should run Berlin in September, decompress, and run NYC at 80% effort just to get the win — run 2:08:30.

It would be a waste of a training cycle to train solely for Boston or NYC at this point.

^This

It would be a total waste of time to run Boston or NYC when he is still good enough to go after the WR. Come back in a few years and win them.

Not. You are NOT anything until you win Boston &/or NY. They are THE biggest, most historic, most prestigious marathons in the world and if you don't win one of them then who the hell cares about you. Yeah, you can go for the silly WRs on contrived courses, but you really haven't won a real marathon race. When regular people talk about running a marathon, Berlin doesn't come to mind. Dubai doesn't come to mind. It's only Boston & NY. Chicago and London are a distant afterthought. Face the facts!

You're saying London isn't a real marathon? Despite being an Abbott major and one of the largest on the planet. You know, if it's 42,195 meters, it's a marathon. And he's already secured his legacy as the GOAT. He ran a 2:00:25. Yes, he had a million advantages given to him, but he still ran that time; the next fastest time ever ran is 2 and a half minutes slower. He just ran a 2:04 off of a 61' first half. A 13:48 first 5k. Nobody's done what Kipchoge has in the 'thon.

I don't know where are you from, but your opinion about the value of top marathons shows you don't know the reality of this sport in 2018.

Yes, Boston is the most "historical" marathon, and the oldest in the World.

I had athletes winning there in the past in both Men and Women (Elijah Lagat, Rita Jeptoo still clean, Selina Kosgei) and the fastest debutant ever (Moses Mosop in 2011), and I like that race : it's part of the athletic history. However, this is something "emotional", but technically speaking, Boston is very far from marathons like London or Chicago.

Also NY has a big tradition, but today is very far from the level of London.

London has the biggest budget, and can offer the highest appearance fees for having the best athletes. Has the best organization, with a pool of professionals working for the next edition from the day after the race, every year. Has on its side a full Nation (the starter was the UK Queen !) and an amazing participation of the local people. Every year, puts together the 80% of the top runner in the World, and for that reason we can consider London as the REAL world Championship on yearly basis.

If you go to see the names of the winners in the Major in the last 15 years, you can see that London NEVER had as winner some athlete not at the top in the World (last year only Daniel Wanjiru was an episode, because of the non participation of Eliud looking at Breaking 2). Instead, some of the winners of the other Majors are good athletes only, but not top champions, and also Kawauchi belongs to this category.

The race in Boston this year was epic, such as a stage of Tour de France with 5 mountains and 35 C of temperature, or of Giro d'Italia with snow and ice, in the mountains, and 80% of the participants dropping out (1956, when Charlie Gaul was the winner), and I understand that the show was very emotional and can be the best for spectators not used to know athletics. However, to think that Eliud needs to win NY or Boston for showing he's the best, is something clearly ridiculous.

In the athletic history, NEVER some marathon runner was able to win 9 marathons of 10 started, including Olympics and Majors like London, Berlin and Chicago.

Eliud, till when can maintain this level, is by far unbeatable in any condition, and is stronger than Sammy Wanjiru or every best of the past. His continuity and the level of dominance is amazing, and never there was something similar. Probably an athlete like Geoffrey Mutai edition 2011 could compete with the current Kipchoge, but was able to last one year only at that level. About the Ethiopians, sometimes there is one able to run very fast (yesterday Guye Adola, today Shura Kitata), but nobody, after Tsegaye Kebede, was/is able to show some continuity.

To compare Rupp and Kipchoge is a pure exercise of imagination : speaking about marathon, they are so far that is not possible to speak about any "duel" if, anf when, they can meet. The gap of Eliud with every other runner in the World is so big that there are no external conditions able to change the final result : if Eliud was in Boston, in spite of the conditions, he could win very easy, since already showed, in all his career, to be competitive with every kind of weather and on every type of surface.

Simply, he is the best EVER speaking about marathon, and this because NOBODY had the same mental strength, and the same continuity in focus, in all the athletic history.

You had some decent points but you really lost me at the end:

"if Eliud was in Boston, in spite of the conditions, he could win very easy, since already showed, in all his career, to be competitive with every kind of weather and on every type of surface."

No, just no. His only "challenging" marathons were in the wet and heat. Happens in many marathons. Boston was a 40F rain soaked affair with 25mph headwinds ( causing sub-freezing wind chill levels) at many points. He is 90% DNF'ing.

Please, don't speak about something you don't know.

Eliud had some training session in terrible conditions in Kaptagat : temperature not higher than 3 C, strong wind changing direction and a lot of rain, plus very deep mud for all the distance (from 35 to 40 km).

Eliud doesn't suffer bad weather conditions, and one of the reasons is that athletes suffering those conditions are not able to mentally react BEFORE the start, becoming losers before starting. This is not the case of Eliud, who has a mental balance absolutely exceptional, and doesn't change the confidence in himself in any external condition.

This means that, when is very hot, or when is very cold, or when there is wind against, or when there are hills, or when there is mud, or when there is humidity, or when he fails to bring a refreshment, or when there is rain..... he is the one losing LESS comparing with running in optimal conditions.

Boston was not the victory of athletes of great talent : nor Kawauchi, and nor Desiree Linden, belong to this category.

Boston was the victory of athletes having the best mental balance in tough conditions, prepared for running frequently long runs at high intensity (for Kawauchi, every marathon is not only a race, but also the SPECIFIC LONG RUN AT MARATHON PACE he uses looking at the next marathon). This means to be very tough under mental point of view, always trying their best without being conditioned by external factors.

Kipchoge has the same mentality and the same balance, with a total different talent as runner (in 5000m, 12:46 against 13:58, with average in his best 10 personal performances of 12:52...). This means a difference of 1'12" in 5 km. How many 5 km there are in a marathon : 8.4 ? This means a difference, looking at their speed, of about 10' between Eliud and Yuki, gap that is not possible to fill with any kind of training and in any kind of condition.

Yes, for Eliud winning Boston could be very easy.

Geoffrey Kirui showed, for 35 km, what the different talent can produce, also in those hard conditions. The fact he slowed down in the last 7 km was due to his low mileage (no more than 140 km weekly), while Eliud never is under 200 km per week.

Geoffrey can become the next number one, if able to train with a higher mileage, of course step by step, for making effective his talent at level of 2:03, in 3-4 years of time.