Marcus Kemp - Illegal Pass in Arcadia 3200 - Should have been DQ'd and Mooney declared the winner.

nairb wrote:

All great points, I personally suggested a rail this year however I was told that it would look "ugly" and that "it wouldn't look good on camera".

Source: I help set up Arcadia Invite.

Did you read what others have said in this thread? You can't just arbitrarily add a rail to a track. Unless you re-measure the lanes and re-paint the whole track. There is a 4-inch difference between the two types of tracks. Railed tracks are smaller.

If you really do help set up the Arcadia Invite, please, please, please read the rule book and understand the sport that you are running.

Just watched the vid. If I was an official at the meet, I would have DQed him for sure. That pass was 100% illegal.

Y'all are noobs wrote:

Look, people. All you calling for a rail to be installed need to understand the track rules. Rails cannot be "just installed". When a track is constructed, it is either sized for a rail or not. With a rail, the inside lane is measured to 400m exactly 12 inches from the rail. If no rail is installed, the 400m lane is measured 8 inches from the line.

Why does this matter? because tracks that are not designed for a rail are ACTUALLY BIGGER than tracks that are designed for a rail. Why is this? because you can run closer to the line if there is no rail, so they push the track out 4 inches to make the area between the line and lane smaller.

There would be no reason to change the track size, because the railing would even farther inside the line than on a rail measured track.

A rail can be installed in the same position as usual, and would NOT interfere with the size of the track.

So, making everyone run farther than regulation is ok with you? Do the math: how much distance in curve circumference does adding 4 inches to a radius give you?

The only fair way to add a rail is by putting it 4 inches inside the white line. You would then allow runners to run in that 4 inches of additional inside track. So the entire argument of DQing this kid would be mute because he was within the 4 inches of rail space.

You can't have it both ways.

All I can say is that Colorado boys are representing this year. This year is super deep on the track on the boys side.

Repping for Colorado wrote:

Marcus Kemp from Canada won the Arcadia 3200 by .01 over Michael Mooney from Broomfield, Colorado, but he made an illegal pass on the backstretch of the last lap by running for at least 10 meters on the infield side of the lane line and should have been disqualified. If he has to go around, it's highly doubtful he catches Mooney by the end. Too bad that Mooney runs the perfect race and gets jobbed by a guy willing to cut corners to win. Watch the video starting at about 8:45 as they come off the turn with 300 meters to go.

http://www.arcadiainvitational.org/eprofile.php?event_id=63&do=videos&video_id=239610

Clearly you don't understand the sport or high school track and field. Bump and run is apart of the sport at all levels.

You colorado kid was not a victim of anything. He was in a highly competitive race.

Don't make excuses for him, he will learn and move past this as any champion athletes does.

There may be a day when he gets bumped and makes a questionable pass and hopefully doesn't get DQ'd as he didn't impede anybody to the finish.

Don't put this negative BS in his mind that he was cheated.

Dumb comment wrote:

There would be no reason to change the track size, because the railing would even farther inside the line than on a rail measured track.

A rail can be installed in the same position as usual, and would NOT interfere with the size of the track.

Not every track hs 4 inches of track inside the curves to install a proper rail. We run on tracks all the time in Ohio where the all-weather surface pretty much ends right at the line on the inside of the curve. Some tracks have tons of room inside, others do not.

Wow punk wrote:

Don't put this negative BS in his mind that he was cheated.

Well, he technically did cheat as the rules state that you can not take three consecutive steps inside the white line in order to gain an advantage. He did that, so...yeah.

Better to be DQ'd at Arcadia and learn from the mistake than to be DQ'd in the state final. Just sayin'

The fact is no official caught it and there were no protests, so the results stand.

You don't get it wrote:

The only fair way to add a rail is by putting it 4 inches inside the white line. You would then allow runners to run in that 4 inches of additional inside track.

And it is even more complicated than that. Yes, you are correct that the track would "move" towards the infield if you compare a track measured without consideration of a rail to one that was purpose built for one. However, you would not just be able to "move" the lane 1 inside limit line 10cm inward and be done with it. This of course creates a wider lane 1 than the rest of the lanes. Thus, all lanes would also have to "move" to the inside. So now lane 2, 3, 4, etc. are "moved" inward and all lanes are equally wide but what about other measurements? The 400m start lines for lanes 2, 3, 4, etc. come to mind and have to be changed to account for the inward movement. In this case the start lines would be "drawn back" toward the common finish line since all lanes are now shorter than the non curbed track lane equivalent. Then, of course, all measurements on the entire track would have to be repainted and start from scratch. The end result is a track that has a smaller infield (contrary to a previous poster claiming it would be larger with a rail). This has implications for long/triple/high jump pits, pole vault pits, throwing areas, steeplechase, drainage, and other sports' fields.

Just put cones on the straights and be done with it.

his form is terrible anyway

Not surprising that a Canadian SLAPS an ENTIRE top American field with ease.

Greatwhitenorth69 wrote:

Not surprising that a Canadian SLAPS an ENTIRE top American field with ease.

And then comes begging for our money for the NCAA experience. You’re welcome.

Meh, it's not like it was on the curve. This didn't shorten the distance. It's a long race, who cares about 3 steps.

He ran off the track to make his pass. DQ.

I have the 2018 NFHS Track and XC rulebook in front of me, these are relevant portions:

Rule 5-13

Art. 1 "Any competitor shall not deliberately run on or inside the track curb (or painted line), and thereby gain an advantage by improving position or shortening the course"

Art. 2 "A competitor shall not, when running around a curve, step on or over the curb, or painted curb line, for three or more consecutive steps with either or both feet"

PENALTY: (Articles 1, 2) Disqualification from the event.

The three consecutive steps rule only applies on the turns but it seems pretty clear he gained an advantage in terms of position with that pass. I watched this race live and completely missed it; I was surprised how blatant it was seeing it again.

NFHS 2018 Rulebook wrote:

I have the 2018 NFHS Track and XC rulebook in front of me, these are relevant portions:

Rule 5-13

Art. 1 "Any competitor shall not deliberately run on or inside the track curb (or painted line), and thereby gain an advantage by improving position or shortening the course"

Art. 2 "A competitor shall not, when running around a curve, step on or over the curb, or painted curb line, for three or more consecutive steps with either or both feet"

PENALTY: (Articles 1, 2) Disqualification from the event.

The three consecutive steps rule only applies on the turns but it seems pretty clear he gained an advantage in terms of position with that pass. I watched this race live and completely missed it; I was surprised how blatant it was seeing it again.

^

This. He made up his own lane inside of lane one and should be DQ'd. Arcadia should have cones all the way around, but that doesn't change the fact that he ran several steps inside the track to gain an advantage.

Dumb comment wrote:

There would be no reason to change the track size, because the railing would even farther inside the line than on a rail measured track. A rail can be installed in the same position as usual, and would NOT interfere with the size of the track.

You don't get it wrote:

So, making everyone run farther than regulation is ok with you? Do the math: how much distance in curve circumference does adding 4 inches to a radius give you?

The distance would not be lengthened in the least.

You failed to comprehend the post to which you responded.

Greatwhitenorth69 wrote:

Not surprising that a Canadian SLAPS an ENTIRE top American field with ease.

With ease?

He barely held off Mooney who has a grand total of three races ever at the distance.

(Starting this season, 9:50, 9:20, 8:50, btw)

....He took 8 strides off the track to dodge traffic and push Mooney outside. Great Northern pride?? Maybe, but that makes you the Great Northern Douche for propping up this "performance".