Minimum mileage needed to OTQ

There is no single answer. I have a friend who ran 2:17 on 40-50. I know of people who have done 150 mile weeks and not gotten under 2:20. If you really cannot go much above 60-70 a week you'll just need to do 60-70 a week and hope it works.

Everyone that I know personally who ran sub 2:19 ran over 100 mpw. Unless you are incredibly talented, there's just no way around getting in high mileage.

Zero. So long as you run 2:19 they let you in. They don't ask how many miles per week you run.

Do the most you can without getting injured. Sounds like 70 mow for you

Steve Jones very rarely ran more than 80 mpws. Just take a few weeks of nothing but very easy mileage when increasing your mileage if you are injury prone.

I peaked at 105 mpw to run high 2:19, but at least 40 miles per week of that was regeneration at 7+ min miles. I wonder what would happen if you substituted cross training for those recovery miles? You’re never going to run sub 2:19 if you’re in a perpetual state of injury.

My (uneducated) guess would be around 80 mpw minimum, but with some extensive cross training either pool running or on the bike for a couple hours of week to get your total weekly volume closer to 11-12 hours a week of training. That'd put you around equivalent to 100-110 a week in running miles. It's definitely not ideal, but I believe that there is an aerobic benefit, especially for the marathon, of building a cumulative fatigue. I can use myself as an individual one off example, but I ran 69 minutes in the half averaging around 70-75 mpw. If you look up any conversion table like Daniels it correlates to somewhere between 2:25-2:26. I ran a marathon last year and averaged 80-85 mpw, so a little bit more but not by much, and everything in the training went well but I died after 18 miles in the race and ended up in a 2:35. I think there is definitely benefits to getting either more mileage or more cross training in. If your body can't handle the mileage then you have to add in somewhere else.

I think you saw this happen at the 2016 trials. There were a lot of guys that qualified with a sub 65 minute half that were more 2:20-2:22 marathoners than sub 2:19.

I failed to OTQ in 2016 (missed by 12 seconds), but have run sub 2:20 six times (3 in the last few years) and hit the sub 2:19 OTQ standard in 2012.

When I was at the 2012 Trials there were more guys that hit the sub 1:05 standard....many then ran over 2:20. Of course it's easier to run a fast half on lower mileage (70-80mpw might be plenty for a speedy sub 65).

Consistency in the marathon is usually from high mileage training (leg strength, metabolism and running economy around that pace is boosted with high mileage). But of course if you get hurt you can't be consistent.

Ultimately it depends on your "talent level." Maybe you could only run 70mpw and do more quality work, but the injury risk is still higher with added speed/intensity. Guys that do 110-140mpw (more like me) usually get away with less quality work and most of the miles are around 6:40 pace or slower.

But extended Threshold/Tempo sessions like 4-5 x 2 miles-3 miles or 8-10 miles "Uptempo" at around marathon pace and faster (As well as 20+ mile long runs at low to sub 6:00 pace at least) are generally needed to run sub 2:19. For most people it takes a lot of aerobic base and leg strength to pull off workouts like that.

So yeah, if you are very talented you can run a sub 2:19 marathon off of only 70mpw. The vast majority of guys that I knew that ran at the trials (who ran sub 2:19) were fairly good college runners and they all ran at-least 100 miles per week usually during some point of their build-up. I know for myself personally I need to hit at least 120 a few times (As well as average around 110 for a month) to even break 2:20.

Thanks for the responses so far. I definitely agree that I won't hit it if I don't stay healthy, and that the old 65 minute standard in the half would be easier than 2:19 off my current mileage.

The cross training idea is a good one that I'm now considering.

The most popular advice is to consistently run >= 80-90 miles/week for several months and then work on any speed development that you need to reach the 2:19 standard. If you get injured easily, then you will have to take a different approach cross training is a great idea, but you'll want to make it as close to a 1:1 replacement for running miles as you can. Consider also investing your time in weight training and drills to address areas that are injury prone. Some people do get by on relatively low mileage in the marathon, and you'll need to know what type of runner you are and what you respond to.

In his five weeks leading up to his 2hrs 08mins 05secs World Record run in Chicago in October 1984, Steve Jones clocked up weekly mileages of 100, 84, 71, 71 and 100. Here is a reprint from his training diary relating to the details of his final three weeks:

Monday 1st October 1984

(am). 8 miles in the rain, Park City, Utah

(pm). Another 8miles, a bit swifter than this morning. Pulse at 11.30am: 51. Finding that I am plodding but I can’t go any faster

Tuesday 2nd

(am). 7miles including 4 x 5mins (90secs recovery).

(pm). 8miles steady, not too bad and relaxed.

Wednesday 3rd

(am). 8miles steady. Still tired not getting much sleep. Stomach still sore (stitch). So, so tired; feel really wiped out all the time (pulse rate 51). Only session today.

Thursday 4th

(am). 8miles with 8 x 3mins (90 secs recovery). Hard session. Only session today.

Friday 5th

(am). 14miles steady. Felt quite good. Did it in 90mins.

Saturday 6th

(am). 10miles including 16 x 1min (1min recovery) but can’t tell if I am moving fast because it is so hard.

(pm). 8miles nice and steady feeling better now. I hope it’s going to stay with me. Don’t feel so worn out but still can’t sleep very well.

Sunday 7th

(am). 16miles on my own. Went okay for 7000feet altitude so I can’t complain

Monday 8th

(am). 10miles with 8 x 3mins (with 90secs recovery). Good session but its still hard to tell if I’m running fast.

Tuesday 9th

(am). 14miles, legs felt tired and weary. Did a little swimming after then had a Jacuzzi.

(pm). 4miles before tea, not too bad.

Wednesday 10th

(am). 8miles gentle, still feel weary, hope it doesn’t last. I can’t understand it.

(pm). 6miles steady and don’t really feel too bad now.

Thursday 11th

(am). 10miles with 12 x 2min ( 1minute recovery). Good hard session, still not satisfied.

(pm). Just did 6miles, nice and gentle. Feel like I am working hard but not running very fast.

Friday 12th

(am). 10miles steady. Not too bad. Wet, windy and snowy.

Saturday 13th

15km road race in El Paso. 2nd to Carlos Lopes. 43mins 29secs. Went okay.

Sunday 14th

A good 18miles in 2hours 20mins, quite hard, not fast but most of it at 8000-9000 feet. Legs were feeling tired from yesterday’s race. Pulse at 4pm: 42

Monday 15th

(am). 10miles gentle pace, not too bad but cold and snowy.

(pm). 8miles steady, very very cold, in snowstorm. Pulse at 11pm: 60.

Tuesday 16th

(am). 10miles including 10 x 2minutes with 1minute recovery, not eyeballs out, just good strides, cold and snowy.

(pm). 5miles steady, felt bloody knackered. Pulse at 7pm: 62

Wednesday 17th

45minutes steady, not too bad but a bit stiff. Flew to Chicago.

Thursday 18th

Another 40minutes steady, very wet and windy. Not too bad but still a little stiff.

Friday 19th

40minutes again, legs sore, chest heavy, confidence seeping away (must have a race soon).

Saturday 20th

Did about 4miles or so, legs not sore today. Come on tomorrow. Getting nervous.

Sunday 21st

Chicago Marathon. World Best – 2hours 08 mins 05secs.

Many times these fartleks had fast paced easy portions. So if they did a 2 on, 2 off fartlek, they were alternating 4:40 and 5:20 pace, making it an average of 5:00 pace.

Also, races are a great stimulus. I like how he did a 15k a few weeks out.

“My friend runs 40-50 miles a week and doesn’t 2:17 marathon” - such a stupid made up comment, grow up

Everyone knows the magic number is 71 mpw

Sky Taranto wrote:

“My friend runs 40-50 miles a week and doesn’t 2:17 marathon” - such a stupid made up comment, grow up

Why is this a stupid comment?

I got just under 2:19 on 75-85 miles a week. No workouts. Hard long run of 20-24 at close to marathon pace. Tempo at 10-15 seconds below marathon pace. Everything else easy.

People on LTR are obsessed with mileage. Slapping your feet on the road for 10 more miles every week isn't going to magically turn you or anyone into a sub-elite marathoner.

Find a proper coach. Understand your body and work a program that keeps you injury free and gives improvement. Don't ruin your body running excessive mileage just to feed into the delusion that running a lot of easy runs is the key to being a good distance runner. One of the most important physiological parameters for success in the marathon is a very high anaerobic/lactate threshold, and that doesn't improve by jogging a whole bunch every week.

Real Lyfe Nobodee wrote:

Many times these fartleks had fast paced easy portions. So if they did a 2 on, 2 off fartlek, they were alternating 4:40 and 5:20 pace, making it an average of 5:00 pace.

Also, races are a great stimulus. I like how he did a 15k a few weeks out.

Steve Jones = The Real Deal

The 15K race was the weekend before his World Record marathon, with 18 miles the next day at 8-9,000 ft. altitude.

“I never wore a watch in races and I didn't know what the record was,” Jones says. “The splits didn't mean much. Early on it felt easy. After 19 miles I was out on my own. I remember Chris Brasher, the race director from London, was there, and at about 23 miles he shouted at me, 'Two more 5:00 miles and you'll get the record!' I thought he meant the course record. So I just kept my head down and carried on. The crowd was going crazy and people were jumping up and down but I wasn't sure what was going on. After the finish it was like being in a dream. Yes, that day in Chicago did change my life forever.”

“He took the marathon into a new era. The way he ran that day showed a total disregard for the marathon as an endurance event,” says De Castella. That's exactly what everyone has been saying about Kenyans and Ethiopians since about 2004.

Jones explains it in his usual unpretentious terms.

“I was a fit athlete,” he says. “I was very fit at that time as a 10,000-meter runner. That's all you need to be.”

His training, long unmeasured repeat efforts on road or grass, plus high-quality long runs that we now call “tempo” was remarkably like Renato Canova's “extending specific endurance” principle (which was already being done by Steve Jones 33 years ago)... that's so HOT and CUTTING EDGE... AT LETSRUN.COM

WORK was the only Jones principle.

“I don't think I had a great deal of talent. I started at the bottom and worked my way up,” he says.

Steve Jones considered running full time after winning the Chicago Marathon in 1984 but decided against it and carried on working in the RAF starting at 8am and finishing at 4.15, even missing lunch to fit in a training session between 11.45-12.30. Most Wednesdays he would turn out for the RAF to race over the country or in low key track races while on Saturday racing for his club Newport Harriers.

In 1976 he finished 7th in the Welsh Championships but was not selected for the World Cross Country Championships and had to watch Carlos Lopes win and he then vowed that Wales would have to pick him from now on… he only lost one Welsh title in the following eight years also placing third just behind Carlos Lopes at the World Cross Country Championships.

The formula was one of lots of steady running and long interval speed work…but steady to Steve Jones is pretty fast! He was said “There is no easy running in the week, no plodding or jogging”. He also had a remarkable recovery rate, once he spent six weeks in plaster and then took only 6 weeks to run a 46:20 10mile road race! Also in 1983, a foot injury sustained just before the Chicago marathon (forcing him to pull out) put him on the sidelines for 2 months… within 3 months he claimed his 3rd place at the World Cross Country Championships.

What shows Jonesy's character is that even after his second Chicago win, he kept his $60 a day RAF mechanic's job, running to work in the morning, adding in a 45-minute lunch run and then running home, often in the dark.

When asked what his mile splits were at Chicago, Jones simply shrugged. He raced like he trained, running efforts as hard as he could.

Those who trained with Jonesy during his heyday know that he would often run his workouts hard enough that he would have to step off the Potts Field track... and VOMIT (= an emesis episode) into a trash can during the short recovery between each interval.

Typical Winter Training Week

Mon - Am - 10miles @ 5min milling

Pm - 12miles @ 5min milling

Tues - Am - 4x5mins Hard

Pm - 10miles

Wed - Am – Race

Thur - Am - 10x2min Hills

Pm - 10miles

Fri - Am - 8miles

Pm - 10miles

Sat - Am - Race or 16x1min

Sun - Am - 20miles @ 6:00 mile pace (or 5:20 pace)

Steve Jones always ran hard and was always going for world records, In 1986 he won a bronze medal in the 10,000m at the Commonwealth Games. In the European Championships shortly after, he once again competed in the marathon.

Leading from the start and breaking away from the pack, Jones ran a brilliant race up to the 20 mile mark. At that point he was leading by over two minutes and on schedule for another world record. However, he then “hit the wall” and suffered terribly in the final six miles.

He slowed to a virtual shuffle, but refused to quit as he watched other competitors catch and pass him.

Two years later, in the 1988 New York City Marathon...Mr. Jones won with a time of 2:08:20.

Steve Jones still holds the men’s British marathon record.

That work gave him an extraordinary four years of successes that included the two victories at Chicago, one at London (1985), one at New York (1988), second to Toshihiko Seko at Boston (1987), third at the world cross country championships (1984), and some phenomenally courageous track races (see this YouTube clip, for example).

"The one race that stands out in my mind is New York, after Reebok dropped his contract," Ardrey said. "He ran with a plain white singlet, and won, to show something to all the people who had written him off."

Reebok immediately resigned Jones, who has been a popular spokesman for the company ever since.

The YouTube video is titled "One of the most courageous things you will ever see on the track." In that Van Dam race, Jones -- an Olympic 10,000 meter runner before his marathon and half marathon world records -- made an early breakaway and ran alone far in the lead. At the start of the bell lap, however, he is reeled in by Gidemis Shahanga, a top Ethiopian runner.

I won't spoil the final 400 meters for you, but a note at the end of the clip reads; "You can teach a person to run, but you can't teach courage."

“Family, friend, and INTEGRITY are words that sum up Jones."