Goal is a 2:28 marathon, talk me out of using Daniels'

My biggest criticism of Daniels is the amount of time spent doing vV02max work. It's too much and not as productive.

It really doesn't matter what your plan is as long as you run enough and can listen to your body. Go train, vary your speeds and distances, taper, and crush it. It's not that hard.

The only vo2max work I do (and prescribed under Training Plan A of the 2nd edition of his book) comes in a six week block that is over by 12 weeks out from race day.

His elite plan includes more vo2max work throughout the cycle, and that makes sense to me.

Not sure about the 2Q plan.

Smoove wrote:

The only vo2max work I do (and prescribed under Training Plan A of the 2nd edition of his book) comes in a six week block that is over by 12 weeks out from race day.

His elite plan includes more vo2max work throughout the cycle, and that makes sense to me.

Not sure about the 2Q plan.

You're referring to the marathon plan. I think it's too much vV02 max work even for the 5K-10K-Half.

If you replace the VO2 work with 10k work and do some longer efforts at around 90% of marathon pace in the build from 18-12 weeks, Daniels gets much closer to Canova.

Yes, I was referring to the marathon plan - given the title and nature of the thread, I just assumed that was what the poster I responded to (you?) was referring to as well.

With respect to Daniels' approach to the 5k to 15k, I agree that there is obviously a lot more vo2max paced work, but that makes sense to me - you are racing at distances where vo2max pace is race pace (at the lower end of that distance range) and where it is a critical limiting factor. If you dig into his approach, the vo2max emphasis is really for 6 weeks in the middle of the training plan (phase III in his world). Before that, the emphasis is on rep work to improve running economy and to make vo2max pace seem more manageable, and after that the emphasis is on threshold pace to allow for recovery. During that rep phase, there is vo2max work, but it is tertiary in importance and is in fairly limited doses of short durations - really just priming the pump for the next phase. During the final phase, there is again some vo2max paced work, but again in lesser amounts and it is of secondary importance in the priority of workouts and the vo2max workouts in that phase are often structured to do a lot of race modeling with some reps early or late in the workout.

Looking back at this kind of made me think back to earlier in the string when we discussed how there are at least some similarities in the seemingly drastically different approaches of Daniels and Canova. When you really when you look at Daniels' overall plan for the 5k, you could argue that while it is definitely a linear plan, much like the non-linear approach of Magness, it really does touch on all of the different systems throughout the training plan with a different emphasis during each phase - not all that different in concept that Magness, I think.

Ok after watching Cornova video and looking through the pdf I am intrigued. I need to do some more research but it seems mainly it’s all about extension.

I have almost 2 years to build to my next marathon so going through a full cycle of Cornova looks interesting.

Historically I have followed a similar plan to Daniels with 2Q per week and lower mileage. It worked quite well to run 2:28 & 2:26 and I think I was in 2:24 shape had i paced a bit smarter. Daniels works for sure.

interesting at this point, jonathan marcus claims canova training doesn't "trickle down".

https://youtu.be/by1-C32Dkcw?t=43m8s

But marcus is all over the map on EVERYTHING.

leekbow wrote:

I have run 2:31, am 27 years old, and have 22 weeks until my next marathon. In a way I don't want to use Daniels', but I've seen a lot of evidence of it working.

In all seriousness, why should someone in my situation not use a Daniels' approach.

Smoove seems to be killing it tho!

Try something new that obviously works 100 % ! The new training system "DANCAN" by Coach JS is absolutely an

interesting new way to train. His very first trained runner lowered his 2:40 marathon PR down to 2:27 in just 2½ month !!

Check here:

Can Dan Can Spam if Spam is already in a Can?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLnG2vquD80