Konstanze Klosterhalfen - 8:36,01 min for 3.000 indoor (solo)

Muir has run a solo 8: 36 this year and an 8:26 last year - surely the 'clean'WR? Plus Muir closed an 8:46 3000 with a 1:32 last 600 on Saturday - Klosterhalfen would never live with that!

Here is the current women's 3000 list:

1 8:31.23 Genzebe DIBABA 08 FEB 1991 ETH ETH 1 Sabadell (ESP) 13 FEB 2018

2 8:34.45 Sifan HASSAN 01 JAN 1993 NED NED 1f4 Seattle (USA) 27 JAN 2018

3 8:36.01 Shelby HOULIHAN 08 FEB 1993 USA USA 1f1 Boston (USA) 03 FEB 2018

3 8:36.01 Konstanze KLOSTERHALFEN 18 FEB 1997 GER GER 1 Dortmund (GER) 18 FEB 2018

5 8:38.81 Hellen OBIRI 13 DEC 1989 KEN KEN 1 Ostrava (CZE) 25 JAN 2018

6 8:39.15 Beatrice CHEPKOECH 06 JUL 1991 KEN KEN 2 Ostrava (CZE) 25 JAN 2018

7 8:39.55 Fantu WORKU 29 MAR 1999 ETH ETH 3 Ostrava (CZE)

Houlihan had some pacing for her race, but has a devastating kick. I would give her the edge for a medal at World's over KK, depending of course which Africans run it. Anyone have any idea whether Muir is running the 1500 or 3000?

BTW Muir shares the world lead for the 800!

strange thing to know wrote:

Do you actually know Jamin's PRs off the top of your head, or does he have a Wikipedia page now?

Nope, I just googled his name and 5000m. The second result had this TFRRS page and it had his recent 3000m on it, so I just took the fastest times from there for the comparison.

For Konstanze I just looked at her IAAF profile.

Glad to see that she is update

Free at last wrote:

Muir has run a solo 8: 36 this year and an 8:26 last year - surely the 'clean'WR?

Do you mean the "white WR?"

Her scrawny elbows don't deliver enough force for close championship racing packs.

No, thanks. She's not up to my standards.

She's 2" taller than me and 40 lbs lighter

109 lbs WTF

jamin wrote:

She's 2" taller than me and 40 lbs lighter

109 lbs WTF

Running really does accommodate a lot of body types. Your build is more similar to Bekele or Haile’s, while KK’s is similar to Paula Radcliffe

Advice Giver wrote:

jamin wrote:

She's 2" taller than me and 40 lbs lighter

109 lbs WTF

Running really does accommodate a lot of body types. Your build is more similar to Brody Hastey, while KK’s is similar to Amber Trotter

FIFY

Phantasy Star wrote:

Huge talent. Possibly a clean WR.

The East Germans pioneered a lot of doping practices. State sponsored German doping supposedly ended with unification, but the inclination/motivation to do so didn't go away. I wouldn't necessarily point fingers at individuals, but as a country, they definitely still warrant suspicion.

zzzz wrote:

The East Germans pioneered a lot of doping practices. State sponsored German doping supposedly ended with unification, but the inclination/motivation to do so didn't go away. I wouldn't necessarily point fingers at individuals, but as a country, they definitely still warrant suspicion.

She's from the west (Bonn, club: Bayer Leverkusen) and her trainer (who is also the national trainer since last year) is just 31 years old and also from the west (Cologne).

Baltsu wrote:

zzzz wrote:

The East Germans pioneered a lot of doping practices. State sponsored German doping supposedly ended with unification, but the inclination/motivation to do so didn't go away. I wouldn't necessarily point fingers at individuals, but as a country, they definitely still warrant suspicion.

She's from the west (Bonn, club: Bayer Leverkusen) and her trainer (who is also the national trainer since last year) is just 31 years old and also from the west (Cologne).

In fact the hamlet of Bockeroth where she lives is administratively a part of the town of Königswinter which borders with Bonn.

Three points wrt doping in Germany:

1) "Advanced" doping practices were not exclusive to the Soviet block (with East Germany at the forefront), but there was quite a bit of that in the West (including West Germany) as well, though not - or not directly - state sponsored.

2) The East German state did not only sponsor doping, but also exerted pressure on the athletes to do it.

3) I don't agree with the idea that we Germans as such are particularly inclined to dope. Instead I think that doping is a matter of individuals and of the structures in place.

she is not from the country where a lot of kissing is considered a blanc check for doping. that should be enough really

She's more than 10 percent faster than you.

How much intermingling has there been in a quarter century? I presume enough. I don't believe that cheating is innate to a country. I'd even like to give the benefit of the doubt to individual Russians for that reason. But I do think cheating is learned and passed on to others.

My girlfriend had a friend who was a former German national team member in a different sport. She confided that there was doping on that national team, but didn't share details like who provided vs. individual, or if there was pressure.

The Germans would be really stupid if they knew all those smart doping practices but forgot about them and did not produce a superlative runner in almost 20 years but now with far stricter controls than ever before we suddenly get Lückenkemper and Klosterhalfen... why now? Why not a decent middle/long distance runner every year or so for the last 20 years?

Remember we excelled for most of this time in doping-prone disciplines like throwing and decathlon (and I don't doubt that there probably was some doping, at least with a similar probability as in UK, US, Poland, Sweden etc.).

But why hardly any runners if we only had to ask Bayer Leverkusen or the old guard from the GDR for the right meds?

Hi zzzz,

sure; I don't claim that Germans are particularly clean either. I have do dig in my memory - or do an internet research - for the details, but some years ago a German scientist made an anonymous inquiry among 500 German top level athletes from all sports, and according to the answers about one third of them (if I recall it correctly) had tried doping at least once.

I am afraid this figure is representative for the world of top level sports, and not top level sports only: I vaguely remember another inquiry which showed that overambitious amateurs do no better than the professionals and in some sports even worse than them.

Fortunately this doesn't mean that there is no progress at all. E.g. Clemens Prokop, the former president of the German athletics federation, worked for a long time and with eventual success to convince the German government that doping should be defined to be a legal offense. It is now punishable with up to 10 years of prison in severe cases.