David Torrence's Death Ruled an Accidental Drowning, But For His Family Questions Remain Because Of Death Threats

OMG...

"No probable cause" - how about being a whistleblower to one of the most prominent African doping groups? Sounds like Scottsdale PD dropped the ball big time.

That's a well written story. Thanks LRC for looking into it even if there's no definitive explanation.

A very sad situation.

can't believe it wrote:

"No probable cause" - how about being a whistleblower to one of the most prominent African doping groups? Sounds like Scottsdale PD dropped the ball big time.

While not a lawyer, I 100% thought the same thing you did in terms of probable cause. How can there not be probable cause for a search warrant of his facebook account when he multiple people have said that Torrence told them he received a death threat via facebook. Isn't making a death threat itself a crime?

In terms of next steps, we definitely are going to to start by reaching out to lawyers to ask them for their legal opinion on this. If you are a lawyer and have an opinion email us at

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The one thing that I think needs to be done is his facebook account needs to be searched by law enforcement for death threats.

What other next steps do you all think we need to take?

LetsRun.com wrote:

We've just published a piece by Jonathan Gault on the investigation into the death of David Torrence.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/02/maricopa-county-medical-examiner-rules-david-torrences-death-accidental-drowning-family-questions-remain-death-threats-received/

Good article, and please stay on top of this.

So for the sake of discussion, lets say this was murder. Seems unlikely though. Wouldn't jumping in a pool and drowning someone cause either enough noise for someone to look outside to see what's going on or bruising on the body which would have shown up in the autopsy report. How specifically do people think he was murdered/drowned?

If one wanted to murder someone, I'd think the decision to do it in a pool at a condo complex would be pretty low on the list of ways to do it.

Terrible story though and it still bothers me that it happened.

Old Timey Guy wrote:

How specifically do people think he was murdered/drowned?

See, when you ask for specific answers to questions like this their conspiracy theories tend not to hold up. So I wouldn't expect to get very many direct answers.

I'm glad the autopsy didn't have any obvious signs of foul play but still feel there are unanswered questions. Great article by Jon.

I too think it's imperative that the family get access to his facebook account. Lawyers my question is from the article it says to get access to the messages, "Facebook requires “proof that you’re an authorized representative (example: family member) and a court order.”"

What's the best way to get a court order? Can the family do some sort of John Doe lawsuit to get a court order? 'We're suing the unnamed individual who we think made death threats?' How else do they get a court order or force the police to get one?

The other big development me for me was that David's dad did not die of something David could inherit. As tragic as David's death was if his dad had a similar condition, it made some sense to me. Now in light of possible death threats, I think the police need to do more.

At the very least, unnearth who made the threats and prosecute them. People may say things online and not mean them, but when a superfit athlete dies suddenly, these things need to be looked into. I have no reason to doubt David if he said he got threats. If it's a terrible coincidence fine, but you shouldn't be able to threaten someone online and it seems like with a warrant it would be a super easy crime to prove. Anyone know how long facebook keeps deleted messages?

moose lake wrote:

Old Timey Guy wrote:

How specifically do people think he was murdered/drowned?

See, when you ask for specific answers to questions like this their conspiracy theories tend not to hold up. So I wouldn't expect to get very many direct answers.

I agree things still point to a freak natural death as I assume it would be pretty hard to kill someone and make it look like a freak heart attack/drowning, but am far from an expert.

Apart from that David reportedly got death threats online and it would be pretty easy to figure out if he did get them. At the very least investigate those and prosecute those even if they aren't related to his death.

wejo wrote:

What's the best way to get a court order? Can the family do some sort of John Doe lawsuit to get a court order? 'We're suing the unnamed individual who we think made death threats?' How else do they get a court order or force the police to get one?

The family wouldn't need to sue anyone. I don't know what Facebook requires, but generally, the family would need to file for probate and have an executor appointed under Torrence's will (if he had one--probably unlikely) or have someone, presumably his mother, appointed as administrator of his estate if he died intestate. The executor/administrator then has authority to act on behalf of Torrence's estate, which should include accessing his Facebook account and gathering whatever property he had. I assume a probate judge would issue an order requiring Facebook to give the administrator access to Torrence's account.

The police, however, could definitely show probable cause for a warrant when multiple people have told them that Torrence told them he received death threats on Facebook. Refusing to get a warrant sounds more like laziness on the part of the police.

Old Timey Guy wrote:

Wouldn't jumping in a pool and drowning someone cause either enough noise for someone to look outside to see what's going on or bruising on the body which would have shown up in the autopsy report.

It would be quite soundless to simply swim up to him, not being considered a threat, and hold him underneath the water until he drowned. I actually can't think of a more silent way to kill someone. You'd have to be a fairly strong person to do it quickly/without much struggle (the bruising you mentioned), however.

Either way, I did not expect this news at all. Wow.

moose lake wrote:

Old Timey Guy wrote:

How specifically do people think he was murdered/drowned?

See, when you ask for specific answers to questions like this their conspiracy theories tend not to hold up. So I wouldn't expect to get very many direct answers.

I don't think of it as a conspiracy theory.

Here are the facts:

1) David Torrence received death threats during the summer of 2016.

2) David Torrence died in August 2017, and the medical examiner wrote it was her opinion that he drowned.

3) David Torrence was a healthy, 31-year-old man who knew how to swim, and no one seems to know what caused him to drown.

Is #1 relevant to #2 and #3? I would argue that it is relevant information. It doesn't mean he was murdered, but it was worth reporting.

And I agree with Weldon: based on the evidence, it seems to me the most likely scenario is that it was a natural death. I'd still want to know what was in those Facebook messages, though.

moose lake wrote:

See, when you ask for specific answers to questions like this their conspiracy theories tend not to hold up. So I wouldn't expect to get very many direct answers.

Using your logic, like Weldon, I agree that he most likely died of some freak heart thing, but if I was the family I would at a minimum not stop until his facebook account was searched. I'm sorry, if a 31 year old drops dead for no good reason, and it comes out that someone made death threats against that person - then the person making the threats needs to be prosecuted whether it can be proven they had anything to do with the death or not.

If Torrence was murdered, I would think there would only be two ways.

1) Someone forceably drowning him but you'd think that would be next to impossible to drown/strangle a 31-year old man at a pool at an apartment complex without someone hearing it or there being signs of a struggle on his body.

2) Some sort of poisoning/roofing of him that caused him to drown. Does anyone know if a standard autopsy looks for poison/roofies? Like would every medical examiner find that in a normal autopsy/toxicology report or would one have to think ahead of time that murder was a real option before looking into it?

This article is really irresponsible. All of these questions you posit should have been answered before you published the piece. If there was a way to see the alleged message threats, then you should have found one.

There seems to be enough corroboration that David received death threats, but zero evidence that those death threats are connected to his death. And yet you suggest there is a link. I also don't doubt he received threats, but I do doubt the seriousness of these threats (because you either weren't willing or able to follow through on finding a copy of them), and I have zero faith in the connection between the threats and his death. Because of your reporting.

Two things can be true at once, there's unanswered questions surrounding his death. And two, he died in a freak accident.

wejo wrote:

Anyone know how long facebook keeps deleted messages?

Facebook keeps EVERYTHING. Forever.

moose lake wrote:

Two things can be true at once, there's unanswered questions surrounding his death. And two, he died in a freak accident.

Absolutely.

the gentleman wrote:

This article is really irresponsible. All of these questions you posit should have been answered before you published the piece. If there was a way to see the alleged message threats, then you should have found one.

There seems to be enough corroboration that David received death threats, but zero evidence that those death threats are connected to his death. And yet you suggest there is a link. I also don't doubt he received threats, but I do doubt the seriousness of these threats (because you either weren't willing or able to follow through on finding a copy of them), and I have zero faith in the connection between the threats and his death. Because of your reporting.

I disagree with your analysis.

a) David's own mother can not get access to the messages.

b) The detective said there wasn't any probable cause to get access to the messages.

The only way to get access to the messages (assuming they were made) is by a) knowing David's password or b) getting a court order and taking it to facebook.

David's death has been ruled an accident, all the official documents are out there, and his family is upset with how the investigation was handled. That is a story in itself that deserves to be published. Jon did a good job of reporting it.

I totally agree the messages need to be accessed but that is in the hands of the police right now and I don't doubt one reason Ms Torrence spoke out is she wants the police to do more.

Jonathan Gault wrote:

moose lake wrote:

Two things can be true at once, there's unanswered questions surrounding his death. And two, he died in a freak accident.

Absolutely.

Great article btw, I should have mentioned that.