I won’t purchase a vehicle without manual.
I won’t purchase a vehicle without manual.
So, put in concrete terms, when, say, driving down a mountain, you believe that you should not leave the car in gear? Part of the reasoning seems to be that fuel cutoff might not happen. But it might. And not doing so can be life-threatening if you get too much brake fade. By the way, this coasting in neutral business is somehow better than an automatic transmission... how?
I think you didn't read the previous post very well, because yours does not make much sense in its context.
By the way (and I know you said it is hard to generalise), in my last car fuel cutoff occurred at all times above idle speed when there was zero throttle input. For my purposes, the times I wanted to keep it in gear were the times I wanted to speed up, the times I wanted to slow down (saves on brakes and usually fuel), and the times I wanted to maintain speed. When cruising it is annoying to do anything else, and it is wise to maintain some connection with the road so there is less lag to accelerate if required. After all, if all you really wanted was economy, you wouldn't just put it in neutral, you would go all the way and shut the engine down entirely while coasting. Note too that leaving it in gear is pretty much necessary on synchro-less transmissions, in case you are ever driving an old truck.
True, when possible a person should avoid situations where he needs to brake, but lights and traffic are not always predictable and there are often schedule demands, so in real life you sometimes can't do that. Burning off that energy with brakes is no better (and arguably worse, at least in terms of brake wear) than taking it away by engine braking. And if there is any fuel reduction during engine braking relative to an idle, it's a win for economy as well.
Where engine braking is not a win is in terms of extra revolutions (engine wear), and, more significantly, clutch wear that will vary with how gear changes are done; or, of course, if it means throwing away more energy than you want to. And if your roads are salted, you probably want to be sure your rotors are clean before you park, in which case using the brakes can be a good thing. And if it's cold and rainy out, you might want to keep the rotors a little warm and clear of water so they're more readily available for emergency use.
On the general topic, I will say that many of the 'driving habits' reasons for using a manual transmission also apply to automatics, although sometimes in a different degree. I will note that some of the logic, such as avoiding distracted driving by distracting the driver with clutch and gears, needs to be recognised for what it is. And driving a manual transmission did not stop me from doing any number of things in pre-cell-phone days that I probably shouldn't have done while driving. I've learned something since then; I'm just making the point that stupidity will often triumph with or without impediments.
The better reasons, in my mind, include the relative mechanical and control simplicity that makes the manual transmission ubiquitous in other parts of the world. It is handy when travelling to be able to drive whatever is available. There are emissions and economy reasons as well, stemming from certain idle requirements when an engine is working against a torque converter. The improved control with a manual in slippery weather, whereby you can affect front/rear braking balance by means of transmission inputs to the wheels, is an important safety consideration, in my opinion.
A lot of misconception and outdated information in this thread.
You could also say FAKE NEWS.
Here are the facts:
1. Modern 7 or 8 gear automatic cars (e.g. BMW, Audi) accelerate faster than the same car with manual transmission
2. Modern 7 or 8 gear automatic cars have roughly the same MPG as cars with manual transmission
3. You can use the engine break while coasting in modern automatic cars with 48V hybrid (mini hybrid)
I won't ever buy another manual car again, ever. Mostly, because of the reasons pointed out above and secondly because in my area (NYC Metro) there is just too much traffic for manual.
im stoopid wrote:
I might be clueless about driving a manual, but she's sitting on the wrong side of the car!
What car are you looking to buy?
NY METRO GUY wrote:
A lot of misconception and outdated information in this thread.
You could also say FAKE NEWS.
Here are the facts:
1. Modern 7 or 8 gear automatic cars (e.g. BMW, Audi) accelerate faster than the same car with manual transmission
2. Modern 7 or 8 gear automatic cars have roughly the same MPG as cars with manual transmission
3. You can use the engine break while coasting in modern automatic cars with 48V hybrid (mini hybrid)
I won't ever buy another manual car again, ever. Mostly, because of the reasons pointed out above and secondly because in my area (NYC Metro) there is just too much traffic for manual.
Whatever. The point of a manual isn't necessary the fastest acceleration or engine braking, and gas mileage is really only an issue if you are buying an econobox with a manual. Most people buy a car with a manual because it's more fun and makes you more engaged in the driving experience, not for practical reasons.
If you buy a Miata, it's not because it's a practical car. It's not. You buy it because it's a fun car. And it's more fun with a manual. With few exceptions those are the only kinds of cars available any more with a manual and that's why people buy them.
One advantage I haven't seen posted here is the ability to pop start/push start a manual if the battery is dead.
Most of my cars and trucks have been manual transmissions. I agree with a lot others have said about funner, more in control, etc.
Some one mentioned the parking brake trick when on a hill. Don't do it. I never did the parking brake thing when I was learning way back when. It actually seemed more complicated to me and I just practiced to be able to drive the right way to be quick and not roll back on a hill. But my current vehicle cheats on hills. I have a 2017 Jeep Wrangler with a 6 speed manual. It has hill assist that automatically engages the brake when standing on an uphill, then releases when the vehicle begins to move. Don't need it but I see that it would help new drivers a lot.
mmassa wrote:
Do they not know that automatic cars exist? What am I missing?
In most countries you can't even buy an automatic because people aren't fat loser americans who don't know how to drive stick.
Great question.
Automatic shifting is soooo much better than it used to be. Almost all high powered cars are automatic these days because it's almost impossible to be as good of a shifter than a new automatic gear box.
You can still drive them in manual mode if you want too. But why?
mmassa wrote:
Do they not know that automatic cars exist? What am I missing?
Have you ever been outside of North America? Good luck finding an automatic anywhere else in the world. In South America and Europe, over 90% of cars have a manual transmission.
I've enjoyed manuals in the past due to simplicity of design, easier maintenance, and such. Early on I found them kind of fun to drive, but most of the time I didn't find the interaction enjoyment really much better than the ease of use of an automatic.
What I've REALLY enjoyed, though is driving electric cars. They're just great. You just tell the car how much power you want at the wheels, and it delivers that power pretty much instantly. It feels like so much more precise control than any internal combustion engine, no matter the transmission type.
Why would I spend seven dollars to see a movie that I could watch at home?
Well, why go to a fine restaurant when you could just stick something in the microwave?
Why go to the park and fly a kite when you could just pop a pill?"
People who drive stick shift view it as a badge of honor or an exclusive club. They will tell you it's more efficent or "fun" but in reality they just want to be better than you at something.
Hardloper wrote:
People who drive stick shift view it as a badge of honor or an exclusive club. They will tell you it's more efficent or "fun" but in reality they just want to be better than you at something.
Sound like someone has an inferiority complex.
Star wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
People who drive stick shift view it as a badge of honor or an exclusive club. They will tell you it's more efficent or "fun" but in reality they just want to be better than you at something.
Sound like someone has an inferiority complex.
I used to drive stick and am explaining it from my own perspective. Manual drivers ARE superior (at this particular skill) and this feeling of superiority is enough to keep opting for a manual.
rhinetalrunner wrote:
mmassa wrote:
Do they not know that automatic cars exist? What am I missing?
Have you ever been outside of North America? Good luck finding an automatic anywhere else in the world. In South America and Europe, over 90% of cars have a manual transmission.
That’s because an automatic car is 2000$ more expensive in Europe, that’s why.
Well 1800€, but you get the picture.
OK. So it's the opposite.
You have a superiority complex.
Bought a Porsche Cayman in 2016. Finding a stick was more difficult than I imagined. Thought it odd not to have a manual on a sports car.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Bought a Porsche Cayman in 2016. Finding a stick was more difficult than I imagined. Thought it odd not to have a manual on a sports car.
I bought a used 2015 Cayman last year. I couldn’t find a stick, but manual shifting is an option.