The greatest GOAT: Tom Brady or Michal Jordan

XY wrote:

nod wrote:

We aren't talking about most athletic. That award easily goes to LeBron. We are talking about most dominant. Every bench warmer in the NBA is more athletic than Tiger Woods. Brady is right up there with Jordan. Anyone who thinks otherwise is uninformed. Many people said the same crap about Jordan while he was playing. "Oh yeah, Jordan is good, but he's only dominant is this soft league and would never match up against Wilt, Kareem and Russell."

Jordan played in a league with Hakeem, Shaq, David Robinson, Ewing etc. Anyone of those were athletic as Wilt, Kareem, Russell

Lol. What is this? Jordan is the only person mentioned here even remotely athletic. The others are stiffs.

dbags wrote:

The greatest GOAT is clearly Wayne Gretzky - and it's not even close.

Agreed. Add Tiger to the list before the two being discussed on this thread.

The answer is Lebron.

Runnerdude69 wrote:

The answer is Lebron.

You feel LeBron dominated his sport more than Wayne Gretzky or Tiger Woods?

XY wrote:

Without a doubt MJ.

Tom benefits from a system that frankly, would make a number of good quarterbacks all time great quarterbacks. Plug in almost any decent possession receiver and you are an automatic all star receiver .

When’s the last time the Patriots had an all star receiver?

XY wrote:

MJ took a not so good Chicago team and made them a playoff team almost by himself.

No, he didn’t. Both Brady and MJ helped transform lousy teams into championship ones. The key word is "helped." Neither did it by himself.

XY wrote:

Tom is great in the NE system, and fits perfectly into their game plan. MJ without the two years of baseball would be the all time scoring leader and have padded his other great stats, including another championship.

The NE system IS Tom. Belichick doesn’t look for players that fit a sysytem. He adapts what the team does to his players.

In pro football, Brady shouldn't be mentioned in the top 20. Barry Sanders or Herschel Walker should be in the running for GOAT, but I agree it's Gretzsky.

No, sorry Giselle, go smoke another cig.

The Pat's system is dink and dunk, because the QB can't throw the deep ball consistently well, so you are correct in that Belicheck has adapted his system to a QB who lives on drinking and dunking. They also aren't going to have all-star receivers very often because of the system of distributing the ball on short passes. Although, pretty sure Welker was all-star level along with the other PED guy Edelman.

The system is not Tom as we saw a couple of years ago when Tom missed the first four games and the replacements looked every bit as good. They did not miss a beat with guys who were new to the system. They also had a guy step in the year Tom got hurt and go 11-5, a guy who did not even start in HS or college, a guy who did not play all preseason. It is that good of a system. I honestly believe Tom is just average and Bill has made him look great.

dbags wrote:

The greatest GOAT is clearly Wayne Gretzky - and it's not even close.

Ummm . . . ever heard of Bruce Egeland?

Guy who says wrote:

dbags wrote:

The greatest GOAT is clearly Wayne Gretzky - and it's not even close.

Ummm . . . ever heard of Bruce Egeland?

Mario Lemieux was better than Gretzky.

I think you mean Tom Brady or LeBron James

LeBron single-handedly dragged a shitty Cleveland team who was 19-62 without him to an NBA championship

Logic wrote:

I think you mean Tom Brady or LeBron James

Go away, kid. Lebronze failed to get a bronze medal at the Olympics, gave up against the Celtics, took his talents to South Beach, then gave up in the 4th quarter against an old Dallas Mavs team. If Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving didn't bail him out, he would be 0-8 in the finals LoL! What kind of GOAT is that?

Brady is not even the GOAT QB.

Put Aaron Rodgers in his place and the pats are a much better team. Aaron Rodgers made the Packers SB contenders every year all by himself. It became evident this year when he got injured that he was carrying the Packers on his shoulders.

The patriots offensive scheme shouldn't discredit Brady's greatness, if short passes to running backs and slow receivers is effective on a consistent basis, why change it? I agree Tom is not the greatness physical athlete but he is the GOAT in the NFL because he plays the most difficult position and continuous to impress at a later age.

Micheal the majority of his career played w/ Rodman & Pippen

Brady goes to the local park & picks out his receivers (Gronk & Moss are exceptions)

Gretzky is MOOAT (most overrated of all time) wrote:

Mario Lemieux was better than Gretzky.

I'll have to give a BIG no on that. A very big no.

Wayne Gretzky Records:

- Most goals: 894 in 1,487 games

- Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games

- Most goals, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule

- Most goals, one season, including playoffs: 100 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 regular season games and 13 goals in 19 playoff games

- Most goals, 50 games from start of season: 61 in 1981–82 (7 October 1981 to 22 January 1982, 80-game schedule) and 1983–84 (5 October 1983 to 25 January 1984), 80-game schedule

- Most goals, one period: 4 (Tied with 10 other players) 18 February 1981

- Most assists: 1,963

- Most assists, including playoffs: 2,223

- Most assists, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule

- Most assists, one season, including playoffs: 174 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 regular season games and 11 assists in 10 playoff games

- Most assists, one game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) on three occasions—16 February 1980; 12 December 1985; 15 February 1986

- Most assists, one road game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) 11 December 1985

- Most points: 2,857 in 1,487 games (894 goals, 1,963 assists)

- Most points, including playoffs: 3,239 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games. (1016 goals, 2223 assists)

- Most points, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule (52 goals, 163 assists)

- Most points, one season, including playoffs: 255 in 1984–85; 208 points in 80 regular season games and 47 points in 18 playoff games

- Most overtime assists, career: 15

- Most goals by a centre, career: 894

- Most goals by a centre, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule

- Most assists by a centre, career: 1,963

- Most assists by a centre, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule

- Most points by a centre, career: 2,857

- Most points by a centre, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule

- Most assists in one game by a player in his first season: 7 on 15 February 1980

- Highest goals-per-game average, one season: 1.18 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 games

- Highest assists-per-game average, career (300 min.): 1.321 -- 1,963 assists in 1,487 games

- Highest assists-per-game average, one season: 2.04 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 games

- Highest points-per-game average, one season (among players with 50-or-more points): 2.77 in 1983–84, 205 points in 74 games

- Most 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 in 20 seasons

- Most consecutive 40-or-more goal seasons: 12 from 1979–80 to 1990–91

- Most 50-or-more goal seasons: 9 (tied with Mike Bossy)

- Most 60-or-more goal seasons: 5 (tied with Mike Bossy)

- Most consecutive 60-or-more goals seasons: 4 from 1981–82 to 1984–85

- Most 100-or-more point seasons: 15

- Most consecutive 100-or-more point seasons: 13 from 1979–80 to 1991–92

- Most three-or-more goal games, career: 50 -- 37 three-goal (hat trick) games; nine four-goal games; four five-goal games

- Most three goal games, one season: 10 (done twice) in 1981–82 and 1983–84

- Longest consecutive assist scoring streak: 23 games in 1990–91, 48 assists

- Longest consecutive point-scoring streak: 51 Games in 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984, 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points)

- Longest consecutive point-scoring streak from start of season: 51 in 1983–84; 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984)

- Most playoff goals, career: 122

- Most playoff assists, career: 260

- Most assists, one playoff year: 31 in 1988 (19 games)

- Most assists in one series: 14 (tied with Rick Middleton) in 1985 Conference Finals (six games vs. Chicago)

- Most assists in final series: 10 in 1988 (four games, plus suspended game vs. Boston)

- Most assists, one playoff game: 6 (tied with Mikko Leinonen) on 9 April 1987

- Most assists, one playoff period: 3 -- Three assists by one player in one period of a playoff game has been recorded on 70 occasions, five of them by Gretzky

- Most points, career: 382 -- 122 goals and 260 assists

- Most points, one playoff year: 47 in 1985 (17 goals and 30 assists in 18 games)

- Most points in final series: 13 in 1988 three goals and 10 assists (four games plus suspended game vs. Boston, three goals)

- Most points, one playoff period: 4 (tied with nine other players)

- Most short-handed goals, one playoff year: 3 (tied with five other players) 1983

- Most short-handed goals, one playoff game: 2 (tied with eight other players) 6 April 1983

- Most game-winning goals in playoffs, career: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)

- Most three-or-more goals games (hat trick): 10 (eight three-goal games, two four-goal games)

- Most consecutive seasons making the playoffs: 14

- Most All-Star game goals, career: 13 (in 18 games played)

- Most All-Star game goals, one game: 4 (tied with three players) 1983 Campbell Conference

- Most All-Star game goals, one period: 4 1983 Campbell Conference, third period

- Most All-Star game assists, career: 12 (tied with four others)

- Most All-Star game points, career: 25 (13 goals, 12 assists in 18 games)

- Most All-Star game points, one period: 4 (tied with Mike Gartner and Adam Oates) 1983 Campbell Conference, third period (four goals)

Mario Lemieux Records

- Shorthanded goals, season (13 in 1988–89)

- Only player to score 30+ power play goals in two different seasons.

- Most power play points in a single season: (80)

- Highest empty net goal game ratio (1 in every 27.7 games)

- Highest empty net goal average career among players with 400+ goals: (5%)

- Most goals scored or assisted on, season (57.3% of team's goals, 1988–89)

- Only player with three 8-point games (regular season & playoffs)

- Only NHL player to ever score 5 goals 5 different ways in one game (even-strength, PP, PK, penalty shot and empty net)

- Highest career goals per game average in playoffs: (.710)

- Most points in a single all star game: (6)

- Most power play goals for a single franchise (236)

- Only player with 70+ power play points in a single season, (1988: 80; 1989: 79; 1996: 79)

- Highest Adjusted Goals Created in a Single Season, 1988/89, 64.36 (Adding Goals scored to 0.5 Assists, then multiplying by team goals divided by teamgoals plus 0.5 times team assists)

- Most goals in a period: (4) Shares record with 12 others, most recently Patrick Marleau (January 23, 2017)

- One of only two players to score 10 or more shorthanded-goals in two different seasons; the other is Wayne Gretzky.

- Playoff Goals in a single period (4, shares record with Tim Kerr)

- Playoff Goals in a single game (5, shares record with Newsy Lalonde, Rocket Richard, Darryl Sittler, Reggie Leach)

- Playoff Points in a single period (4, shares record with Tim Kerr)

- Playoff Points in a single game (8, shares record with Patrick Sundstrom)

(those first 16 records of Gretzky's are undeniable total domination)

TB is slow and cannot jump.

I am not sure you can even call him an athlete.

dbags wrote:

The greatest GOAT is clearly Wayne Gretzky - and it's not even close.

Bobby Orr was better than Gretzky at most things on the ice.

lollerama wrote:

(those first 16 records of Gretzky's are undeniable total domination)

Gretzky was a compiler but definitely not a better player than Lemieux. Brett Favre retired with a lot of career records but wasn't really even good for a big part of his career.