It is the same reason that elite runners don't just keep training and going for PRs year round. Burn out sets in. Push 14 year old girls to run 50 MPW and travel the country and the world chasing PRs, and they never recover. We have gone over this many times. Shelby Houlihan and Grant Fisher weren't running 50 MPW and competing in meets all over the country at 13 years old. None of the best American men or women show up on national record boards from USTAF or Junior High. Maybe we don't know precisely why, but the evidence is there to support it.
Is Grace Ping Update?
High School Running
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Burn out dud wrote:
Push 14 year old girls to run.....
I gather that you're speaking in generalities, but from what I know & see of the Ping sisters nobody is pushing them to run any amount of mileage. Their parents certainly don't. Their coaches at Cotter certainly don't. Perhaps they simply enjoy running & competing? -
Not toomany junior high inner city girls head out the door for an 8 mile run. Push may be the incorrect term, but it is a family/cultural thing. Who drives them all over the country when they are 12? Who supports their flying all over the country and globe? These are young teens. They do have parents who are responsible for them until they are 18. Grace Ping, Claudia Lane, Stephanie Jenks, Frazier sisters, Mary Cain, where are they now? Shelby Houlihan, Karissa Schweizer, where are they in comparison?
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She's toast.
Seriously, girls who grow up playing soccer and MAYBE running the occasional 1k "fun run" end with with vastly better careers than "12-year-old world record holders" or whatever. Every single time.
Super-competitive high-mileage running is a disaster for young girls. -
“Maybe we don’t know precisely why”
Right. We don’t know if those runners would have been faster as adults if they did not train as much when they were younger. You are assuming causation. But there is no evidence for causation. Or if there is, I would like to know it. -
Bur out dud wrote:
....but it is a family/cultural thing.
You're right about that: the Ping family does love to run. The parents are both avid runners. Ryan has a 16:01 5K PR, and Megan's is 17:58, I believe. I'm not sure what Ryan's marathon PR is, but Megan's is 3:01 if I'm not mistaken. Even before they were married, they ran together. Growing up, the girls acquired their love of the sport from their parents (along with the genes that have put them both in the 99th percentile competitively, vs. their peers). And their 11 year old brother Jamison is following in their footsteps. I know he clocked a 17:48 in the Open race at the 2017 Nike Heartland (yes, as a 9 year-old!). -
Minnesota XC Fan wrote:
Lauren has run 5:05 (i) and 10:36 (o) so far this season, in early meets.
Here in Minnesota we had heavy snow a week ago, so that hindered outdoor practices & many meets were cancelled.
I'm certain both Grace and Lauren will be running at the Hamline Elite Meet on Friday, the 26th, so let's see how they do.
Lauren ran like 4:50 and 10:40, both wins I believe.
Grace ran like 11:00. -
Natio wrote:
Minnesota XC Fan wrote:
Lauren has run 5:05 (i) and 10:36 (o) so far this season, in early meets.
Here in Minnesota we had heavy snow a week ago, so that hindered outdoor practices & many meets were cancelled.
I'm certain both Grace and Lauren will be running at the Hamline Elite Meet on Friday, the 26th, so let's see how they do.
Lauren ran like 4:50 and 10:40, both wins I believe.
Grace ran like 11:00.
Yeah, Lauren's 4:50 for the 1600 win was especially impressive. A PR for her by 8 seconds. She and Lauren Peterson were running about side-by-side with 100 meters to go, when Lauren (Ping, that is) lit the afterburners (I was standing right along the track at that point). She finished 1+ seconds ahead.
Doubling-back in the 3200 less than 90 minutes later, her win was still very impressive, but about 15 seconds off her PR. (Understandable....after that 1600.)
Grace ran 11:00 flat in the 3200, and was clearly feeling it at the finish. Just wasn't her night.... -
Bur out dud wrote:
Not toomany junior high inner city girls head out the door for an 8 mile run. Push may be the incorrect term, but it is a family/cultural thing. ?
Where are you getting "inner city" from? Grace Ping lives in Winona...there's no "inner city" there. -
Burn out dud wrote:
It is the same reason that elite runners don't just keep training and going for PRs year round. Burn out sets in. Push 14 year old girls to run 50 MPW and travel the country and the world chasing PRs, and they never recover. We have gone over this many times. Shelby Houlihan and Grant Fisher weren't running 50 MPW and competing in meets all over the country at 13 years old. None of the best American men or women show up on national record boards from USTAF or Junior High. Maybe we don't know precisely why, but the evidence is there to support it.
The USATF record holder for age 13-14 girls in both the 1500 and 3000 is Jordan Hasay.
It's about 14 years later now and she is still doing OK .
http://www.usatf.org/statistics/records/view.asp?division=american&location=outdoor%20track%20%26%20field&age=youth&sport=TF -
You missed the point. The Pings are wealthy. They strongly support their daughters’ running. So while it may not be absolutely pushed, it is encouraged. The point is that not too many inner city kids turn into distance runners because they are not encouraged to do so.
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Grace has started to drop off and Lauren is peaking. It’s is sad but true. Yes, Hasay was good at a young age but she is 1/1000 who continued to improve. The odds are that the Pings will disappear and some girl the same age who is running 12 minutes for 3200, will go on to run 15:30 in college while the Pings will be running 18 minutes.
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I would count her out just yet. She just needs to get a little more serious about running and so does her family and coaches. Running is a hobby for them and these kids need coaching on a different level then most high schoolers. But that's only if they want to go this direction. Mary Decker was running the same as these girls at her age and ran for years at world competition level..
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I am counting her out. She was a top 5 national runner when she was only in JH and she is now lucky to be top 100.
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Who is pushing them? wrote:
Burn out dud wrote:
Push 14 year old girls to run.....
I gather that you're speaking in generalities, but from what I know & see of the Ping sisters nobody is pushing them to run any amount of mileage. Their parents certainly don't. Their coaches at Cotter certainly don't. Perhaps they simply enjoy running & competing?
There are different versions of pushing your kids in any endeavor. The Ping parents may not be forcing their kids out the door every day for training runs but if they are traveling around to attend events, moving their family from state to state, or otherwise prioritizing running as the family sport the kids will feel extraordinary pressure to follow along.
I know a family I’m my city who have made running the family’s signature identity and the kids have struggled to keep up. One of them walked on to a Power 5 school when it was clear he should have aimed a little closer to his ability and he ended up transferring twice. His parents could not have been more supportive but the family’s only value system was running. -
I see miles and training and pushing mentioned here alot. They are lower down the order to what is happening here.
Grace's body has changed alot in the last two years, it's a fact of life for most women athletes at that age. Some don't get affected very negatively, others do. It's a roll of the dice. -
Counting out wrote:
I am counting her out. She was a top 5 national runner when she was only in JH and she is now lucky to be top 100.
Dyestat's 2018 end-of-season XC rankings put Lauren Ping @ #22 and Grace Ping @ #51.
I believe Lauren Ping is currently the best 8th grade girl distance runner in the U.S., and I think her 4:50.64 in the 1600 on Friday night (04/26) at the Hamline Elite Meet provides strong evidence of that. I don't know of any other 8th grader in the U.S. who can match her at the present. To provide some perspective, 9th grader Roisin Willis, who famously upset Athing Mu in February, just set her new 1600 PR on 04/20: 4:53.26. Someone else above claimed that Lauren Ping is (right now) "peaking." Nonsense! -
You say that she is the top 8th grader in the nation but that is not her peak? How can you go higher than number 1? Grace peaked in 8th grade which makes it logical that Lauen will do the same.
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Peaking at you wrote:
You say that she is the top 8th grader in the nation but that is not her peak? How can you go higher than number 1? Grace peaked in 8th grade which makes it logical that Lauen will do the same.
Peaking in ranking for her grade level is not the same as peaking in ability or PR's I would say. I expect she will continue to get faster, and achieve higher performances than she already has (although 11th & 14th places at NXN by one's 8th grade season seems plenty stellar to me). -
They can be the same thing. In her case, they are the same thing. She is following in her sister's footsteps. How hard it must be for Grace to have gone from the leader in the nation to not even being the leader in her household. Minnesota girls have a history of running great in junior high and then dropping off later. It is one of the few states that allows JH kids to compete on varsity. It is the best case study that we have in the US to see how it hurts long term development by having kids start to early. Let's not forget that the male freshman record holder is form Minnesota. He is a junior in college but is virtually unknown.
