How much does raw speed matter in a mile?

a lot. \thread

Aerobic capacity/ strength is more important.

It doesn't matter as much as the 800, but definitely matters more than the 5k.

Let it Rupp wrote:

It doesn't matter as much as the 800, but definitely matters more than the 5k.

noshit

Define raw speed.

In ball sports, raw speed refers to first step burst and 40 yd dash times. That type of fast twitch driven speed is largely irrelevant and in fact counterproductive for milers. Sebastian Coe is the most speed based mile world record holder in history and even he couldn't break 11 for 100 meters. I'm guessing most WR holders since Bannister couldn't break 12 out of blocks.

However, quality quarter mile ability is absolutely essential for elite milers. With a few rare exceptions, sub 4 milers have at least 52.xx open 400 ability. Most runners in a WC/ Olympic final have 48-49 sec open 400 ability. An elite miler's speed comes from a combination of flawless mechanics (genetic and trained), outstanding speed endurance (trained) and just the right amount of fast-twitch muscle (genetic).

Raw speed doesn't matter at all, unless you are trying to run really fast, in which case it kind of does matter. But if you are just jogging a mile, or even walking, or riding in a vehicle, then it doesn't matter.

I hope this helps. I did not want to be too technical -- just stating the basic principles.

if you want mathematically, if you have sh!t over-endurance, say only 8'00 for 3k but can run 4'00 for mile, if you can do no speed work for mile but only endurance & slash that 8'00 down to say 7'40, then theoretically, your mile can be expected to improve by cube of distances for clocking improvement

8'00 - 7'40 -> 20s

->

20 * ( 1609.344 / 3000 )^(3)

->

3.087s

->

3'56.91

i offer only endurance improvement, speed i'm sure posted elsewhere, but needs digging out, but i vaguely recall cube-rooting speed improvements

if above & you run 4'00 off 1'50, if you dragged that down to 1'45 with no endurance improvements

->

1'50 - 1'45 -> 5s

->

5 * ( 800/1609.344 )^(1/3)

->

3.96s

->

3'56.04

don't quote me on these as i need to check my dusty tomes, but you won't go too far wrong by cubing appropriately...

So from these calculations, you can conclude that improving your 800 time will improve your mile time more than by improving your 3k time. Since 7:40 and 1:45 weren't equivalent improvements from 8:00 and 1:50 respectively, I changed the improved 3k time to 7:38.18 which for you math whiz's like me, that's an improvement of 21.82. This only takes 3.37 seconds off your mile time.

Ghost of Arthur Lydiard uncle wrote:

Aerobic capacity/ strength is more important.

All things equal with regards to training, the guy that can run a 50 flat open 400, while you're at 53, is going to win.

It matters if you want to win a fast mile.

Let it Rupp wrote:So from these calculations, you can conclude that improving your 800 time will improve your

mile time more than by improving your 3k time

yup

hugely

speed kills

it is true mathematically also

Since 7:40 and 1:45 weren't equivalent improvements from 8:00 and 1:50 respectively, I changed the improved 3k time to 7:38.18 which for you math whiz's like me, that's an improvement of 21.82. This only takes 3.37 seconds off your mile time.

does this offer you some sort of gratification ?!

i already posted the possible method

it is immense triviality to feel compelled to dance around it on it on an open forum ???

calculo wrote:

does this offer you some sort of gratification ?!

i already posted the possible method

it is immense triviality to feel compelled to dance around it on it on an open forum ???

Pipe down little buddy, I'm just fixing your math for you, no need to get all in a tizzy :P

calculo wrote:

yup

hugely

speed kills

it is true mathematically also

does this offer you some sort of gratification ?!

i already posted the possible method

it is immense triviality to feel compelled to dance around it on it on an open forum ???

And saying someone ran .1mm extra on a track like you do in every other thread isn't trivial? Measured by eye none the less.

There is a strong correlative relationship between "basic speed" (as in all-out sprinting ability) and one's potential in the mile. The connection is that in both activities favor some of the same physiological attributes (fast-twitch muscle fibers, long muscle bellies with a high fiber count, stiff tendons, narrow hips, and long legs). The reason they are not linearly related is that there are also some differences (the longer the distance, the more important mass becomes, among others). Although a mile race will never call for you to sprint all-out from a fresh state, the more fast-twitch fibers you have, the lower the percentage of them you have to recruit to run at a given speed, and thus, the less "hard" each one has to work metabolically. It's always funny to me to hear supposed running and fitness "experts" say that distance runners are "slow twitch" athletes. To many people, a 13 second 100m is an all-out sprint, but Olympic 5K champ El G did 15 of them consecutively with no rest.

calculo wrote:

it is immense triviality to feel compelled to dance around it on it on an open forum ???

0/10 ??

No to belittle your point, but El Guerrouj (or anyone else) did not run 15 straight 100m in 13 sec...that would be 3 min 15 sec for 1500m

13.9 per 100 times 15 equals 3:28.5

Andrew Wheating averaged about 14.05 per 100 in his 1500 PR

It matters a lot in elite level races.

When you have a situation where the top 5 guys have the aerobic power to stay together until the last 200 meters, the guy with faster legs wins.

sdfsdf wrote:

Ghost of Arthur Lydiard uncle wrote:

Aerobic capacity/ strength is more important.

All things equal with regards to training, the guy that can run a 50 flat open 400, while you're at 53, is going to win.

Although all things are never =^^ this is correct. A miler with 52ish 400 speed is going to get blown out of the water when they toe the line 50 guys with 50 400 speed who are similarly situated aerobically. The mile is a speed-based event.