Does ultra running take the speed out of your legs?

Yes - if you just do all long slow distance runs

No - if you switch it up and do speed work, tempo runs, and track workouts

Definitely slowed me down. It does depend of course on the training you’re doing. I lost a lot of shorter distance speed by spending a year focusing on ultras instead of faster races and triathlon. Trying to get that speed back now...

Marathon and HM time only suffered a bit but 5k time went up a lot.

Forget Sage. Ask Matt Carpenter.

Okay I'll bite.
It depends on the "ultra". Racing a flat/flat 50km is a lot like a road marathon and correlates very well to marathon "speed" (heck even a flat 50-miler or 100km /100miler does as well).

It's the mountains/hilly/technical trails that is not a specific neuromuscular pattern that slows stride rate, zaps power and efficiency (read specific running economy for flat roads). You extend that over 100km with lots of vertical change and add in trail technicality/altitude/alpine weather and you have a very different type of running...often mixed with "powerhiking."

I initially ventured into ultras because I finished mid-pack in the 2012 Olympic Trials with a 2:18. I know where i stand on the national level on the roads and on the track (even worse...I only ran 29:47 for 10km in college remember). I also thought doing some 25-30 mile long runs might help my marathon "strength." I think on the roads/flat trails that could be very good for a marathoner (although 22 mile long runs are usually sufficient enough with consistent high mileage (i.e. for me 115-120mpw is a sweet spot) and balanced Tempo Run workouts/speed workouts).

So in short, after my disaster at UTMB (to be fair I also ran like crap at the Speedgoat 50km earlier in the summer...over 18-min slower than i have in the past on the same course) I've really had trouble getting the leg turnover and marathon OT pace (5:18/mile) back. It's taken over 12 weeks of dedicated training now and finally (after actually touching foot on a track for the first time in years) I'm starting to feel like maybe I can run a sub 2:19 marathon again. It's like the few fast twitch muscle fibers I had went dormant and i actually lost stride length/power. I guess we'll see soon enough in Houston (fingers crossed with the weather as I think it's going to be close!).

But right after UTMB and doing some other long 100km+ hilly/mountain ultras I've for sure felt slower and uncoordinated in those first few months. Turns out slogging around in the mountains at 12-min mile pace isn't very specific to running low 5-min pace on a flat road. It's all about specificity in training, periodization and training focus. Variable Running Economy.

You don't see guys that smash 100-mile/100km mountain ultras come back down and race super fast road marathons that often. Max King has probably done the best of us moving down from 50-milers mainly, but he always seems to have a 2:14 type of marathon in his wheelhouse! "Moving back up" from road marathons up to 50km/50-mile "runnable/fast" trail ultras is an easier transition to make actually. The hills matter and the musculature of your legs matter as well as your running form/power/stride (and nutrition).

I can only speak from personal experience (mainly my failures like missing the OT standard in 2016 by 12 seconds and having meltdowns in 100-milers), but I love all types of distance running events and it had been fun to mix it up (despite sometimes not being in my best interests in terms of earning prize money).

Hi, Sage. Are you running Western States this year? If so, will you make it a focus of your training or keep trying to mix up distances and elevation profiles? Thanks and I hope you'll have a successful 2018 in running and in life.

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ukathleticscoach wrote:

Ultra runners don't have any to start with

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I think Sage answered the question pretty well. The more specific the training the better the results. I don't run ultras but when I switch from marathon training back to 10K or 5K, it takes a while of dedicated track work to get my speed back. So, the overall answer is yes running ultras will slow you down at least temporarily. I'm not sure why this thread had to turn into a bashing of ultra running in general.

Thanks Sage for popping in and giving good feedback despite all the trolls here! My only troll comment is I think its high time you finally get married to Sandi. What are you waiting for??

The answer is YES.

The other problem if you try to race a lot is you quickly lose fitness. You spend half of your time recovering, get a little training in and then run much slower during the race because it is so long.

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Slow as moleasses wrote:

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ukathleticscoach wrote:

Ultra runners don't have any to start with

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Q: How can you tell when an ultra runner is sprinting?

A: You can't.

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watching from the sidelines wrote:

I'd venture to say a runable 50k with vert could be a huge breakthrough for a marathon performance more than a 100 miler would be. We can't ignore the mental fortitude it takes to complete ultra distances too. Even Sage acknowledged a lack of short interval training this past year working towards UTMB, and he believes that zapped his legs of the turnover he developed in his career. I can't help but laugh when I see posts pertaining towards Ultra as "slow" runners. I referenced Max King and some others in the 2:13-2:18 range, and the comments that came back were..classic LRC. Sure, those times aren't Olympic gold worthy, but if you've qualified for the Marathon trials, and have the range to run a competitive 100 mile mountain race, you my friend, are elite.

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Mark Miwurtz wrote:

Does ultra running take the speed out of your legs?

What if you ran 10k pace once or every other week and also did hill sprints and strides weekly?

Have a conversation about it in the box below.

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No wrote:

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watching from the sidelines wrote:

I'd venture to say a runable 50k with vert could be a huge breakthrough for a marathon performance more than a 100 miler would be. We can't ignore the mental fortitude it takes to complete ultra distances too. Even Sage acknowledged a lack of short interval training this past year working towards UTMB, and he believes that zapped his legs of the turnover he developed in his career. I can't help but laugh when I see posts pertaining towards Ultra as "slow" runners. I referenced Max King and some others in the 2:13-2:18 range, and the comments that came back were..classic LRC. Sure, those times aren't Olympic gold worthy, but if you've qualified for the Marathon trials, and have the range to run a competitive 100 mile mountain race, you my friend, are elite.

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOSHITMISSEDAKEY

.......blah & blah...."you my friend are elite" !!!!

You are a funny man!

Who knew that Mountain jog-wog-hiking a bajllion-million feet @ 9:00 minute pace is "elite"??

Max King is "elite" in ultra world and, indeed, would be elite in the women's marathon.

Killeen Journet is elite at BS, just as Mike Rossi is.

Ultra is elite among, we'll just among ultras pretty much. All 12 of them.
"Now let's go jog a 16 miler in 4 hours!"

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No wrote:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOSHITMISSEDAKEY

.......blah & blah...."you my friend are elite" !!!!

You are a funny man!

Who knew that Mountain jog-wog-hiking a bajllion-million feet @ 9:00 minute pace is "elite"??

Max King is "elite" in ultra world and, indeed, would be elite in the women's marathon.

Killeen Journet is elite at BS, just as Mike Rossi is.

Ultra is elite among, we'll just among ultras pretty much. All 12 of them.
"Now let's go jog a 16 miler in 4 hours!"

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