Been running for five years...

Just checking in to see if there had been any more posts and I realized my comment about some runners not being able to override the pain might be misconstrued as saying you're a wuss. That's not what I meant.

Our brains have a "governor" that prevents us from running so hard we kill ourselves. It's not something you can consciously control, or at least, not consciously control very much. Instead, you can train it by pushing yourself into the severe discomfort range in long intervals, like the 800 and 1000.

I agree with you. She should carve back the long runs but keep mileage at 40-50. Don't struggle with aerobic side - half marathon or longer until you get the anemia resolved. Use your time building up strength and speed. Run hard 2 days and recovery running between them. Race 5Ks until you start seeing some results and move up from there if you wan to.

Oh Please wrote:

Warning: I am very slow. wrote:

31, female and 120lbs.

Troll detector is going off. I don't believe a young woman only 120 pounds running 50mpw has trouble breaking 2 hours in a half.

If not a troll, do you have some form of anemia? Are you 4'8"?

I'm thinking the same...

Barring some medical condition, this may be a case of too much disorganized running. Some random thoughts:

- You paces need to match your current fitness, and you need to focus on your weaknesses: in perfect 55F weather, how fast can you timetrial a 5k or 10k currently?

- You are running a weekly 5 mile "tempo" at 8min pace and your 5k pace is 7:50? Something doesn't sound right. Your training paces may be way off producing little to no improvement.

- Have you ever used a HR monitor during your training? It can help guide your training paces, at least get them in the right ballpark.

- It looks like you can turn your legs fast but lack endurance, maybe reduce your easy mileage and focus on some quality longer runs (with sections at a medium+ effort) or longer repeats and/or hilly routes.

Talent matters

I retract my statement above.

I see you have some health issues that might be holding you back, and since I'm no doctor I couldn't tell you whether or not the health issues you have, have a direct impact on your fitness.

In addition to the tons of other info others have suggested your long runs stand a lot to me.

I see tons of 9:30 paced runs across the board that you do, one that stands out heavily is your long run. You shouldn't run the same pace same distance day after day, week after week, month after month, and in your case year after year? I would definitely adjust my long runs to progression runs or fast finish long runs every other week.

You're already running 50mpw so I won't say you're not running enough but perhaps cut back to 40 mpw and then push up to 60mpw and then average back down to 50mpw this might help you break out of a plateau.

When you run, now be honest, are you consistently checking your watch to see what pace you're running at? If this is true you could be holding yourself back on days that you're feeling good simply because you're used to the 9:30 pace and anything outside of that makes you think it's tempo day.

50 mpw is actually quite a lot for someone who isn't a serious athlete (top high school / college /etc).

You are probably running too much.

I'm curious about your basic speed. Can you tell us your fastest 200m or 400m? I know plenty of people who struggle to run faster than say 8 mins/mile for even 200 meters.

It seems to me there is not enough intensity. Too much sameness. Your same scheduled would be more appropriate to a build up to race specific training. Perhaps more variation between both weekly volume and intensity. One thing is for sure, the only way to get faster is to train for it. Not a light switch to be turned on and off.

Igy

Do you monitor your heart rate when training? Especially with iron and thyroid issues, heart rate is a good indicator of what is really going on with your body. You might find that your body (heart) is working harder than you realize during workouts so you are not training in an aerobic zone.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

It seems to me there is not enough intensity. Too much sameness. Your same scheduled would be more appropriate to a build up to race specific training. Perhaps more variation between both weekly volume and intensity. One thing is for sure, the only way to get faster is to train for it. Not a light switch to be turned on and off.

Igy

How and what would you suggest? Can you be more specific? Remember she has some health issues that is preventing her from doing too much volume. Maybe she would benefit from mixing it up ie slightly lower mileage and adding strength training regime until she can get strong. We’re not talking about a young female who’s having trouble getting faster due to not doing the right mileage plan. I believe you have to look at the athlete beyond the conventional training especially in the OPs situation. Just my .2 Bits of thought...;)

1. Think about getting faster.

2. This means running easier on your general aerobic run days. Much easier. 9:00 pace or 9:30 pace is too close to your current 5k race pace. Run very easily - 10:00 pace or slower.

3. Lower your mileage target and run shorter on Sunday and Monday. Perhaps 1 hour to 1:15 as a general aerobic run could be the norm.

4. Think about running faster on your hard days - currently Wednesday and Friday.

5. You're young, so perhaps run 3 hard days per week - Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

6. Shorten your long run to between 90 minutes and 2 hours but run slower.

7. Do a variety of sessions on your hard days. Don't run as fast as possible on hard session days but run controlled and think about what you're trying to achieve with the session. Don't be fixated on times but think about the feeling. For example, 6 x 200m might be with the 200s feeling fast and relaxed. Don't be fixated on the number of repeats in a session. If your schedule says 8 x 400m and you start to struggle on the 6th 400, stop there.

I think your main problem (besides any health issues) is not recovering well enough on easy days to be able to run the hard days well.

You are making the #1 hobbyjogger mistake: running your "easy" runs to fast. You are running what would be your marathon pace for "easy"days, which is much too fast. I run 10-11-minute miles on the same mileage and run sub-20 for 5K(old guy who is a coach). Try dialing back to 12 min miles on the flats, and walk the hills if need be. You need to be recovering 100% on a daily basis in order to progress.

No "speed work" other than strides for three months until your easy runs improve at least a minute per mile at the same heart rate.

Of course it is hard to zero in on a problem without actually being more involved, but here a couple of thoughts:

1) add repetitions of 200-600m using Daniels’ suggested paces with full recovery

2) easier recovery, so prepared to run faster on interval days

3) intervals should be from 800m-1,200m using Daniels’ like paces with half the distance recovery

4) short tempos of 800m-mile with 2:00 rest, total distance 2-4 miles

5) race a variety of distance, especially at the shorter end

6) vary mileage higher and lower, avoid running same mileage week after week

Igy

The only way she'll get faster is to run faster. Running faster hurts and there's no way to get around it than to put in the work and get used to and then raise the bar and do it again.

Her #1 hobby jogger mistake isn't necessarily that she's running at marathon pace, its that she really only has 3 speeds. 'Easy', tempo day, or all out sprints? There's no variety and her legs likely tap out along with a concrete 5 year mindset that anything above what feels 'easy' is immediately gonna feel too hard or too fast and that she can't handle it.

OP get a copy of Daniel's Running Formula and get a doctors opinion if your medical condition has a direct impact on your fitness levels.

I like how OP is claiming that they have issues running 8 min mile pace in 5K and you guys are suggesting to go run 10-14 miles at 9 to 930 pace, typical idiot Letsrun noobs

Couldn't agree more with working on basic speed. You're hitting all the good training paces but because you started running later in life you lack basic speed development. Did you play soccer or anything as a kid?

The point is, if you increase your top end speed, you'll increase the strength of your legs and the efficiency of your stride, making faster paces feel more natural and eventually easier.

Try a sprint ladder workout every once in a while: 200-150-100-80, with 3 min rest, all out.

Strides every day or every other day.

Longer track intervals every once in a while (8x300, etc).

Warning: I am VERY slow. wrote:

I can only manage a 24 min 5k and at best a 6-7 minute mile... and then people here go on as though 5 minute pace is slow.. i don’t actually understand how you are all so fast.

There's a lot of good info on this board but also a lot of trolling, non-sense, and braggadocio. 5-minute pace is very fast unless we're talking about the Chicago Marathon or the NCAA XC championship. Or if the person posting is a world-class runner themselves (which is pretty common here actually...which is one of the great things about LRC).

Anyway, regarding your pace, you're doing fine actually. Looking at various friends and family they usually get to about a 30-min 5K after a year. Most of them basically stop training after that.. Sticking with it and getting to 24min is a solid achievement.

50 mpw should be plenty, at least to get you down to 21 or 20 in the 5K. A lot of good, detailed advice here. Some quick thoughts:

* Your training pace is quite fast compared to your race pace. Don't be afraid to run slow on recovery days and fast for workouts.

* The 15 mi Sun + 10 mi Mon combo is really intense, as someone else mentioned. I would replace one of those with another workout (3 x 1600). I would cut back mileage as you increase pace for workouts, then work back up if possible.

Is your goal a 5K, half, or full? A 15-mile long-run is quite long for 5K training. I would also race a lot if you aren't already.

You say that you have hemochromatosis. Typically diagnosed much later for women but maybe you were tested because of family history. Are you doing therapeutic blood donations to bring down your ferritin levels or are they just monitoring it? Because certainly if you are routinely donating blood, that could impact your training.