Froome being dropped by Grand Tour Mountain-Climbing GOAT, Simon Gerrans on a hill. Froome (in red behind Gerrans) zig-zags up the road like a future 5-time GT winner, at 2 minutes into the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8
And Lance, pre-EPO, being demolished by Miguel Indurain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmR9k8UAohs
Can only imagine what goes in the mind of an ambitious athlete when facing the choice to dope or not. Rags or riches?
Sorry, twas this video to see the destruction of Froome by bottle-carrier, Gerrans:
Couldn't post the right link.. so the zig zag action begins at 8 mins into the Froome video not 2 mins.
What's up with this? wrote:
diet soda wrote:
It's not nice to fool the Central Governor!
Huh? What's up with this? You drunk already?
Try to keep up, Sparky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_governordiet soda wrote:
What's up with this? wrote:
Huh? What's up with this? You drunk already?
Try to keep up, Sparky.
Well...you should have posted the link in the first place. What's so hard about that? I must be all those chemicals in the diet sodas you're drinking! ?
Don't get fooled wrote:
Bottom line with Armstrong's talent: He was a classics rider and stage hunter before Ferrari's magical transformation. Armstrong simply couldn't climb worth a crap and never displayed any GT potential as a young rider. In comes Ferrari & presto!...he becomes a Tour monster & one of the best climbers in the history of the sport! He was Riis 2.0 on a much larger scale.
The power of PEDs with the right doping doctor and the sky's the limit.
Armstrong was using PED's from the start. I don't know of a time he wasn't doping, alot!
Lance was a junior when USA Cycling had Chris Carmichael and Rene Wenzel as coaches. Some of Lance's teammates ended up with inexplicable medical complications thanks to the human experiments Carmichael and Wenzel were running on (mostly) teenagers. There was a lawsuit. Apparently Carmichael bought his way out.
Literally all of his results were doped in one way or another. So, there's no way to know what was possible without so many drugs over decades.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
Literally all of his results were doped in one way or another with help from USA Cycling and the UCI depending on the year. So, there's no way to know what was possible without so many drugs over decades.
Fixed that.
Froome versus Lance wrote:
Froome being dropped by Grand Tour Mountain-Climbing GOAT, Simon Gerrans on a hill. Froome (in red behind Gerrans) zig-zags up the road like a future 5-time GT winner, at 2 minutes into the video.
Remember all those OTHER results Froome got at Barloworld 2008/2009 that showed his potential? There were so many!!
Oh, wait, no... Not one.
I still find it hard to believe that a pro rider unable to podium anywhere, not even at home, suddenly "matures" into a grand tour podium winner is a plausible story to anyone who is at least vaguely aware of Lance Armstrong's doping.
On My Way Home From An All-Nighter wrote:
diet soda wrote:
Try to keep up, Sparky.
Well...you should have posted the link in the first place. What's so hard about that? I must be all those chemicals in the diet sodas you're drinking! ?
You need a link to know what the central governor is? On a running forum? Dude, that's pathetic.
They assume its the inhalation that got his numbers up. That's an assumption. Oral and Injectible are banned in any level.
And while they claim that this stuff in the inhalation is only useful for astmatics, so could never be abused by a healthy cyclist / athlete, that's not true.
There is a published study in the BMJ that took 12 healthy subjects and found an improvement in cardiac output.
Froome is a doper. As are a lot of others taking salbutamol.
diet soda wrote:
You need a link to know what the central governor is? On a running forum? Dude, that's pathetic.
0/10 ??
Big Man On Campus wrote:
diet soda wrote:
You need a link to know what the central governor is? On a running forum? Dude, that's pathetic.
0/10 ??
My apologies. You are obviously a moron.
Aragon wrote:
Don't get fooled wrote:
Wow!..good find! That'll sure put Aragon in his place if he comes back to read this thread. Lol.
That is indeed a great find! Really sensational stuff! Thanks to the hours and hours of tireless research by "Doping historian" the mankind now knows that Eddy Merckx used PEDs during his career! Who would've known that?
All I knew beforehand was that anti-doping advocate Paul Kimmage took amphetamines during his career at least once in the 1980s and that the testing system was considered very in-effective and that there was one Italian inquiry in 1962 that concluded that 46.6 % of all of the professional cyclists used medically suspicious products (mostly amphetamines) and in 1965 "tests conducted on Belgian cyclists showed that 37% of professionals and 23% of amateurs were using amphetamines". (CIRC-report, p. 33)
We must conclude that there is also apparently no distinction between low and high-octane doping products as the only one who used stimulants (Merckx) could dominate the peloton and crush his opponents from late 1960s until mid 1970s in a fashion reminiscent of Lance Armstrong between 1999 and 2005 (or maybe Merckx was a high-responder). Just WOW!!!
Clearly in addition to the rEPO-era, there must've been a "stimulant era" because the use was rampant and totally uncontrolled until late 1960s when Tom Simpson died so there must've been a peak in the TDF speeds during that decade also!
Once again, really great findings, I should now end my all research projects and retire to monastery, thanks!
The funny thing is that in the 1970s, when the cyclists got wind that there was going to be testing at the end of a stage. "Hot" riders would ride on the edge of the road in the stones to deliberately get a puncture and thus end out of the top 50-100 testing or more outrageously, simply stop and walk into the crowd to avoid finishing.
Tour da Lance wrote:
A Lance classic!?
https://youtu.be/AG4odJP-Zuw
?"10 years of steroid abuse is just not good for yah."
"My case I came out of a life threatening disease, I was on my deathbed, do you think I would wanna come into a sport and say ok doctor just give me everything you've got I just wanna go fast, no way, I'd never do that."
This man is funny ?, surely he must be referring to some other Lance Armstrong.
diet soda wrote:
Big Man On Campus wrote:
0/10 ??
My apologies. You are obviously a moron.
And you are obviously a stupid college kid! ?
More Lance classics ?
Gotta be one of Lance's best marketing promos for Nike ?
ATX'ed wrote:
What's up with this? wrote:
Damn...Lance has really aged! He looks easily 8-10 years older than his mid-40s. Must be the long-term effects of all that dope he took. ?
Looks bad, doesn't he? All that gray hair and a few extra pounds, it seems...
gray hair? yeah, that's horrible:):):):):) making fun of others...karma is a b*tch indeed. you'll see;)
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
Don't get fooled wrote:
Bottom line with Armstrong's talent: He was a classics rider and stage hunter before Ferrari's magical transformation. Armstrong simply couldn't climb worth a crap and never displayed any GT potential as a young rider. In comes Ferrari & presto!...he becomes a Tour monster & one of the best climbers in the history of the sport! He was Riis 2.0 on a much larger scale.
The power of PEDs with the right doping doctor and the sky's the limit.
Armstrong was using PED's from the start. I don't know of a time he wasn't doping, alot!
Lance was a junior when USA Cycling had Chris Carmichael and Rene Wenzel as coaches. Some of Lance's teammates ended up with inexplicable medical complications thanks to the human experiments Carmichael and Wenzel were running on (mostly) teenagers. There was a lawsuit. Apparently Carmichael bought his way out.
Literally all of his results were doped in one way or another. So, there's no way to know what was possible without so many drugs over decades.
And doping has given him his lavish lifestyle. So, if all of his competitive results were doped in "one way or another" it doesn't matter at the end of the day for him. Armstrong has got everything: tens of millions of $$$, two mansions, fancy cars, hot wife, and he's now pursuing comedy in his starring role in the HBO sitcom "Tour de Pharmacy." And what was the consequences of his cheating? Loss of his TdF titles, a lifetime ban and had to pay back a few sponsors. Big deal, he's still a multi-millionaire and living the life of the rich & famous.
It's disgusting when you compare LA's consequences of that of Marion Jones. She too doped, cheated & lied, but unlike LA, she went bankrupt, served prison time and basically lost everything to her name. And sure as hell ain't starring in any comedy about doping!
Armstrong made out like a "bandit" and has reaped the benefits of cheating. Marion Jones not so lucky. Sad...but true.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/23/sports/sp-marion23I wanted to come back to this, because now I have some time, as your portrayal of "defended" is also something quite vague and slightly misleading. Bringing up historical facts and circumstances surrounding "sanctions", or "allegations", is stretching the meaning of "defending convicted dopers". I never claimed Baumann was innocent, but the circumstances do seem worth re-telling. Baumann was clearly caught with nandrolone, and rightly deserved a hearing evaluating the facts, evidence, and circumstances, and then determine appropriate sanctions within the guidelines. Nevertheless, the toothpaste "excuse" is something much more than a bizarre response offered without supporting evidence -- from Wikipedia, we can see he underwent several weeks of voluntary independent testing, to try and get to the bottom of this: "The exact circumstances of this episode remain unclear. Baumann was voluntarily tested after the initial results by an independent institute. Extremely high levels of nandrolone continued to be found in the tests and the results of the tests fluctuated dramatically depending on which time of day Baumann was tested." also "the levels of nandrolone found in his body were completely abnormal for any athlete wishing to enhance his performance." I do wonder why Baumann's name often appears as an example of EPO and blood doping effectiveness, as he was convicted for nandrolone, at a time when his performances were nothing special. Regarding Decker, there were some questions raised about the T-E test used to convict her. Again from Wikipedia: "Decker and her lawyers contended that the T/E ratio test is unreliable for women, especially women in their late 30s or older who are taking birth control pills." and "The (T/E) ratio test has seen its standards tightened to a 4:1 ratio, instead of the previous 6:1 ratio, and laboratories now also run a carbon isotope ratio test (CIR) if the ratio is unusually high." It was questioned, not only by Decker's attorneys, but the IOC labs themselves (I guess IOC labs because 1997 pre-dates WADA). The "IOC laboratories ... own internal scientific literature questioned the validity and reliability of the ... test as a proxy for doping, especially for women whose hormone levels naturally fluctuate" and "the IAAF has since revised its procedures and the IOC Laboratories have stopped using the test as its basis to prosecute doping cases."https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/263737-134485-slaneys-still-angry-about-doping-allegations These seem to me like valid points that need to be addressed. In 1996, the T-E test used to convict her wasn't quite mature, and apparently the "IOC" and IAAF agreed, and changed their processes and how these tests are used to determine guilt. Regarding "all the NOP forbidden method users", so far that list only includes Magness. Regarding the others, the allegation is not yet ripe enough to require a "defense". Regarding Farah's "evasion", it looks like a clear case of a "missed test" -- athletes are allowed 3. It looks like no one more qualified than you determined that his actions constitute "evasion". Regarding "Paula" -- I was accused of defending drug cheats -- you don't need to ignore her as she is not the subject.
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Yeah I still don’t get it. Drug cheats should be sanctioned according to applicable rules and laws.
Yet you defended Baumann and Decker and Farah and all the NOP forbidden method users (Magness, Ritz, Tara, maybe Rupp). The first two were actually banned, yet you claimed they were innocent (toothpaste and menopause), Farah should have been banned for test evasion (wada code, 2.3.: "without compelling justification", but UKAD stood up for him), and the forbidden method is punishable by bans of 2 - 4 years.
And I am ignoring (Paula) here, while her cases are among the most obvious ones.
Is this fun for you?
Tour da Lance wrote:
More Lance classics ?
https://youtu.be/6aJmYmasQhcGotta be one of Lance's best marketing promos for Nike ?
https://youtu.be/MIl5RxhLZ5U
This is comedy gold.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.
I think Letesenbet Gidey might be trying to break 14 this Saturday
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing