Highly likely Bosse may never win another international race in his career, but he won the only one that mattered in 2017. Should be No. 1.
Highly likely Bosse may never win another international race in his career, but he won the only one that mattered in 2017. Should be No. 1.
On Olympic and World Championship years the winner takes #1. On non-champs years it is time + head-to-head.
El Keniano wrote:
Highly likely Bosse may never win another international race in his career, but he won the only one that mattered in 2017. Should be No. 1.
Wonder why you would say such a low thing considering he's shown he can win international races easily...
https://www.iaaf.org/results/diamond-league-meetings/2016/london-anniversary-games-5842/men/800-metres/final/result#resultheaderhttps://www.iaaf.org/results/diamond-league-meetings/2016/meeting-international-mohammed-vi-dathletisme-5867/men/800-metres/final/result#resultheaderUm, how the...what the.. wrote:
Obviously Bosse is #1.
That's like saying the winner of the Boston and NYC marathon in the same year is not #1 because some runners ran faster in some time trial marathons.
The winner of Boston and New York in the same year wouldn't be #1, because neither of those races attracts the very top talent. London and Berlin all the way. Maybe even others, like Dubai.
Click bait controversy wrote:
Clearly Boss should be higher than 5th. He won the most important race of the year, the race everyone peaked for.
Obviously such a low ranking us for click bait. Well played you got me.
If Bosse was American, he would be #1.
Look at this quote: "Fifth may seem low for the world champion, but if you remove Bosse’s London result from his record and there’s no way he’d even be on this list."
Now replace some words... "Fifth may seem low for the Olympic champion, but if you remove Centro's London result from his record and there’s no way he’d even be on this list."
Yup...
Loving the debate here, guys.
But for those of you saying the world champion should always be #1, why even bother having world rankings if that's the case? Just use the results from Worlds.
We're trying to judge the entire season. Worlds is a (big) part of that season, but it's not the only meet.
Interesting.... wrote:
[quote]El Keniano wrote:
Highly likely Bosse may never win another international race in his career, but he won the only one that mattered in 2017. Should be No. 1.
Wonder why you would say such a low thing considering he's shown he can win international races easily...
Not a diss. Wanted to point out the talented up and comers who look set to come into their own next year.
NotSo wrote:
Um, how the...what the.. wrote:
Obviously Bosse is #1.
That's like saying the winner of the Boston and NYC marathon in the same year is not #1 because some runners ran faster in some time trial marathons.
The winner of Boston and New York in the same year wouldn't be #1, because neither of those races attracts the very top talent. London and Berlin all the way. Maybe even others, like Dubai.
Aaaaah, so when it suits your purposes NY and Boston attract low caliber talent whereas Berlin and London attract the top. So when G. Mutai. E. Mutai, Kipsang, Gebreselassie, and Biwott run London or Berlin they are the very top, but when they run Boston and NY they are low caliber. Is that a fair assessment?
wejo wrote:
We try and be consistent. The people doing the rankings haven't changed.
I think you do a great job- what I was saying is that I believe that Season Rankings are different than a Global Championship which is who is the best on that day.
Rankings can change week to week- then you take the whole season into account.
Global Championships- who is best on that particular day.
runn wrote:
wejo wrote:
We try and be consistent. The people doing the rankings haven't changed.
I think you do a great job- what I was saying is that I believe that Season Rankings are different than a Global Championship which is who is the best on that day.
Rankings can change week to week- then you take the whole season into account.
Global Championships- who is best on that particular day.
Yes. The Global Championships, where everyone gears their season to be the best on that particular day (and not for Eugene or Rabat or whatever)...which is why it is by far the most important.
Adam Kzstottzsztk needs to be top three.
Jonathan Gault wrote:
Loving the debate here, guys.
But for those of you saying the world champion should always be #1, why even bother having world rankings if that's the case? Just use the results from Worlds.
We're trying to judge the entire season. Worlds is a (big) part of that season, but it's not the only meet.
If you don't WIN the Olympic or WC title, THEN you are subject to the off-year rule, which is time and head-to-head record. Being #1 ON THE DAY trumps all in this sport.
The only thing that could trump winning a world title is a massive World Record (with no title).
It's not all that hard.
Responding with an explanation as why Bosse isn’t number 1 is pretty poor logic to justify him being ranked 5th. Whoever decided to rank Bosse, the WORLD CHAMPION, 5th is clearly a moron.
Rankings are hard to do, and I love that you create year-end rankings!!! They're fun to look at, and to discuss.
I don't know where Bosse should rank, but definitely in the top 3... I think you have your 3-4-5 order exactly backwards!!! Also, Kyle Langford should easily be #10, if not higher... even if he didn't do anything (besides that one meet called World's), he beat both your #1, and #2 ranked guy at World's, and that at least warrants a top 10 rank IMO!!!
USA 1-5 is SPOT ON in my opinion.
When everyone in the sport is trying to peak for Olympics or World's, everyone with sense or expectations at the beginning of the year, you have to factor it in much more than Diamond League races, so there is no way that Bosse should be even close to #5. Recall too that there are three rounds at World's, but one at a Diamond League race. On this way of thinking, you make the World's winner count 3-4 times as much as the winner of a DL race for the greater significance and, say, twice as much on top of that for running three rounds, the first two of which but especially the semis can be very dicey to qualify from. So, on that score, you can consider:
1 pt each for DL win
2 pts for World leader, 1 pt for World #2 time, 1/2 pt for World #3 time
1 pt for major national championship (in this event, that means pretty much U.S. or Kenyan title)
6-8 pts for World gold
Maybe 1/3 for silver/#2 of each level and 1/5 for bronze/#3 at each level.
Then, you guys can try re-scoring it, but I'd guess that Bosse would finish highly overall, then.
He'd have 6-8 pts
Korir would have something like 4 pts?
Amos would have something like 4 or 5 pts?
This is just a suggestion. I can understand that in a weak year at World's, some might question the quality of the field, but then that might also be an artifact of testing.
The World Champs is a joke. The 800 is about going as fast as possible over 800 meters, not eking out the best mediocre time after sapping rounds. It's also a dimwitted copy of the failing olympic model, a huge part of why track is not popular.
The only way the WC will ever mean anything is if they do away with rounds and institute a ranking system where the year's top 8 are in the final, period. They'll never do it, corrupt as they are, they want those two week events and kickbacks and bribes and such. So away with it and let the DL finals be the WC.
This can be done fairly if DL meets are forced to adopt automatic entry standards so anyone good enough can run them. Then everyone has a fair chance to run a fast race. The final would be the year's top 8 by time, making the entire season interesting as athletes try to knock each other off the leaderboard.
And in the final there should be pacemakers. They are legal for world records, so the pretense that champs are somehow too pure for that is hypocrisy. Face it tactical race lovers, everyone else hates it. Pacemakers for the finals.
This is going to be Kszczot's breakout year. Mark my words
Bad Wigins wrote:
The World Champs is a joke. The 800 is about going as fast as possible over 800 meters, not eking out the best mediocre time after sapping rounds. It's also a dimwitted copy of the failing olympic model, a huge part of why track is not popular.
The only way the WC will ever mean anything is if they do away with rounds and institute a ranking system where the year's top 8 are in the final, period. They'll never do it, corrupt as they are, they want those two week events and kickbacks and bribes and such. So away with it and let the DL finals be the WC.
This can be done fairly if DL meets are forced to adopt automatic entry standards so anyone good enough can run them. Then everyone has a fair chance to run a fast race. The final would be the year's top 8 by time, making the entire season interesting as athletes try to knock each other off the leaderboard.
And in the final there should be pacemakers. They are legal for world records, so the pretense that champs are somehow too pure for that is hypocrisy. Face it tactical race lovers, everyone else hates it. Pacemakers for the finals.
Sure, you can say that about all the races 800 and above. Actually, the races at 1500, 5000, and 10000 (and marathon) are typically much more mediocre in times. Add pacemakers for all. Only thing is, they don't necessarily have to follow the pacers.....
The win by Managanoi in 3:33.6 was much more lame. Like a 1:45.5 800.
Edris even worse at 13:32. Like a 1:47 800!
Spoke with Bosse at training yesterday and he's not concerned about where he is ranked and knows that he was just the best on the day, not the best in the World. He believed he was ready to run 1:43 post WC if it weren't for the facial injuries he received after being assaulted.
He's a long way ahead of where he was this time last year, so expect to see him back in the 1:42/43's in 2018....if h stops missing the cool down jog after hard sessions ?
JR