How would you rate the best marathon training plans?

Daniels' Q2 plan on 50-60mpw is great, at least it worked for me. I don't have a comparison to any other plan, but I started from basically nothing on this plan and got a 2:58. I especially liked the flexibility, gives you two long workouts a week, the rest is unspecified easy running. It surely depends on your time range, I imagine once you enter the sub-elite range there are more specific, better plans. similarly, if you run 3:30 or slower, I doubt you need much more than easy runs and long runs. I ran 3:38 years ago on 30mpw doing that.

For my next marathon I'll use a super short but intense 8 week plan, not in the mood for another 18 week plan and curious how that goes.

It is more than the OP requested (60) but it is 75 miles a week not 90.

gelindo wrote:

It is more than the OP requested (60) but it is 75 miles a week not 90.

Yeah, bad arithmetic on my part. I was figuring five 10-mile runs (90 minutes at 9:00/mi), then somehow added 18 and 12 to get 40! Still, 80 mpw for a 3-hour marathoner, and 75, as you say, for the OP.

Anyway, your plan is solid. Actually kind of similar to Pfitzinger's with the long run and medium-long run each week. Of course, Pfitzinger would include an LT or VO2max workout one of the other days.

What would you suggest for the weeks leading up to the eight weeks? Base mileage, or faster stuff with some some shorter races (5K, 10K). I mean, ideally. No matter what the previous work, I can see how your eight weeks would be good marathon-focused final prep.

Just waiting for Coach JS to hijack this thread

I'd create a numbered list, with the best training plan at number 1, the second best at number 2, and so on.

Guy Sensei wrote:

Just waiting for Coach JS to hijack this thread

There you found it! JS is the great coach that looks to be magical. His best marathoner so far won in

Valencia last year at 2.07.38 , only 10 weeks coached by The Wizard.

But you cant find his exact program yet, just contact him to guide you.

Allen1959 wrote:

Before writing my marathon training schedule this year, I purchased Daniels' book and Pfitzinger's book. I had previously -- and successfully -- used Pfitzinger's 1999 "Road Racing for Serious Runners" for 5k and HM training, and decided to go with Pfitzinger again.

I am older, so rewrote the plan based on a 9-day cycle to accommodate more recovery and some cross-training.

So, every nine days I included three "hard days" -- a long run, a medium long run, and a workout (like 4 miles at LT pace). The two long runs were progression runs, including some close-to-MP miles. The other six days were easy recovery runs, a rest day, and a couple bike rides.

I peaked at about 50 miles per week, averaged less than 40. But that was an increase from the previous year, and my marathon time dropped from 3:25 to 3:07.

Let's be clear that you are no longer using Pfitzinger's plan. You may have used it as a guide, but if you succeed or fail you cannot give credit or blame to Pete.

BLtheKid wrote:

I'd also add that any plan should have a limit of 70 miles per week. Last year, I averaged in the low 50's and this year I'm doing just short of 50 right now and am planning on the low 60's.

You can run a lot more mileage than that if some of them are easy. Running too many miles as the sole reason for training plans failing is a misnomer in our sport. It is too much intensity that is more likely to be the problem~~~ESPECIALLY with the marathon!

waltertompatton wrote:

BLtheKid wrote:

I'd also add that any plan should have a limit of 70 miles per week. Last year, I averaged in the low 50's and this year I'm doing just short of 50 right now and am planning on the low 60's.

You can run a lot more mileage than that if some of them are easy. Running too many miles as the sole reason for training plans failing is a misnomer in our sport. It is too much intensity that is more likely to be the problem~~~ESPECIALLY with the marathon!

It`s not too much intensity. It`s more a problem of wrong paced individual intensity, and in some cases too much mileage.

Even too much mileage can give injury and overdoing related problems. A runner in the past ,Derek Clayton, is a good example of this I say. Another example ,not a marathoner, was David Bedford, who after his career told he had cut the extremly high mileage he used to do if started training from the beginning again.

Went fro 3:22 to 2:37 using Hansons. I had been in a 10 year slump. Used Hansons for last 3 marathons and improved by at least 9 minutes each time.

Luv2Run wrote:

Let's be clear that you are no longer using Pfitzinger's plan. You may have used it as a guide, but if you succeed or fail you cannot give credit or blame to Pete.

You are correct. The basic outline was his -- when to run LT workouts, when to introduce VO2max, the inclusion of long runs and medium-long runs. And all the workouts came from his schedule.

But the final plan was certainly not his. Especially the version I executed as injuries took a toll.

As an aside, Pete and I attended neighboring high schools, so we competed against each other back in the mid-70s (well, I should say we were in the same races -- I was no competition!). Also watched him when he won the 1984 Olympic trials. So, feeling some "hometown allegiance" to the man, although he took off for New Zealand many years ago.

I want to thank everyone for their replies - a lot of good ideas. I think it's fair to say there is more than one way to achieve a successful result.

Anyway, my plan right now is three workouts every 10 days and running 5 out of 6 days. So far, I've done ten workouts.

I am viewing things as though there are five different types of runs: Intervals, Threshold, Marathon pace, Intermediate-Long and Long.

I am emphasizing three of these run types at any given point in time, while at the same time doubling down on a particular run type as I move through the weeks leading up to the race.

So, what I've done so far has been Intervals, MP, Intervals, Long. (have completed this cycle 2 1/2 times far)

As a starting point, I went with VDOT 43 from Daniels (VDOT 45 equates to a sub-3:30 marathon). So, to me that VDOT 45 is an eventual target for my runs. When I meet my workout target, the next time I do that same type of workout I either increase the VDOT by one unit or add one mile to the workout (but not both at the same time).

On Intervals, I'm always running 6 x 800 with a 1/4 jog in-between. Had trouble with the very first workout and dropped back to VDOT 42 for the next one but then hit three interval workouts in a row so that my last one was VDOT 45 (target 3:24 but I was only able to run 3:27). That said, it seems my in-between jogs are slightly less than Daniels seems to suggest so I'm thinking of moving it from .25 mi to .30 mi. Provided I hit this next workout on Friday, I'll then try to back it up with a 5 x 1000 workout about a week later. If successful, I'm thinking of then dropping Intervals from the program and replacing those with Threshold runs. At this point, two of every four workouts will be Threshold, with one MP and one Long.

Eventually, I will change that to one Threshold, one MP, one Intermediate-Long and one Long.

My last MP run was five miles (7:52, 7:49, 7:43, 7:47, 7:41) - my race target is 8:00. As I keep increasing these MP runs one mile at a time, should I be trying to run these as fast as I reasonably can or should I hold myself more to running around an 8:00 pace? Is there any thought to trying to get used to more of a 7:45 pace so that 8:00 will feel that much easier on race day or is it better to be running 8:00 all the time to get my body used to that?

I am expecting the MP run distance to eventually peak at 15 miles (that's a big difference from the Hansons program that I ran last year, which was 10 miles) so that seems like a lot to handle.

Long runs I am increasing one mile each time (since my easy runs were 8 at the time, my first "long" run was 9 and I've since done a 10 as well. I'm doing these as progressive runs and trying to do the last third at MP. I am not sure where to eventually top out - the longest runs from Hansons were 16 and Daniels says don't run for longer than 2 1/2 hours (which might be 17 miles for me). But, I'm getting feeling I need to be doing up to 20 (maybe more but at some point I feel I might be pushing my luck). If so, how should a 20-miler be run?

How should Pfitzinger's Intermediate-Long run be done? (I think I'm going to get his book but haven't done so yet)

My easy runs were only 6 miles in Hansons. I'm at about 8.5 now but am planning on eventually getting these up to 10-11. Daniels easy run pace at VDOT 45 is 9:17 - most of my easy runs are a little bit faster than that. I'm feeling my easy runs are about 15 seconds faster (with the same effort) than they were last year.

If I'm going to go under 3:30, I think this is the year. At age 55, theoretically it gets harder every year but my training has been far enough from optimal that I can overcome the otherwise year-by-year decline.