Star Wars: Last Jedi Discussion. ***SPOILERS THREAD***

800 dude wrote:

whateverworks wrote:

Has anybody mentioned that Anakin Skywalker, who had the strongest force ever, was a nobody too.

You seem to be forgetting the fact that Anakin's father was the force.

I don't blame you. I try to forget that too.

Well, jedis are not allowed to marry. That means most of them came from an ordinary background, that probably includes the masterful ones such as Yoda and Mace Windu, etc. In that sense, the Skywalker bloodline is the exception, not the norm. I don't know why a lot of fans seemed to expect an elite bloodline of Rye.

whateverworks wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Major Spoilers!

You have been warned!

If Luke was going to die anyway, why not just face Kylo Ren in person?

Is Leia going to die off screen?

What a complete cop out about Rei’s parents.

I have to be honest, I was slightly disappointed. Lots of cool action, and the climax with Snoke was incredible, but it just felt incomplete.

Has anybody mentioned that Anakin Skywalker, who had the strongest force ever, was a nobody too.

Yeah, I thought the same for Luke's not facing Kyro in person. Maybe he underestimated what that would cost him.

Anakin was born from the force. Super lame, and ever more lame if they copy it for Rei.

theJeff wrote:

Anakin was born from the force. Super lame, and ever more lame if they copy it for Rei.

It's awesome. The prophecy, Anakin's parentage, and the way the prophecy was fulfilled were all pretty epic.

dad bod wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Anakin was born from the force. Super lame, and ever more lame if they copy it for Rei.

It's awesome. The prophecy, Anakin's parentage, and the way the prophecy was fulfilled were all pretty epic.

Sure I guess, if you're really into bible borrowings

Overall good.

Acting was great.

I didn't have a problem with the humour but I can see why others might.

However, a few details let it down and made it feel unStarWarsy. Here's a partial list:

- a general sense of dispensing with much of the TFA's setup, storylines and characters

- the film favours plot twists (often very contrived) over character development

- too many simultaneous subplots

- no back story for Snoke, and now he's dead. not sure where they are going to go without him as there aren't any other genuine bad guys (except for the British)

- lots of suicides or suicide attempts by rebel characters - gets a bit much

- Ackbar was killed off for no reason (except that he's not played by a big time hollywood actor)

- aesthetically it wasn't as good as TFA or Rogue One even though it borrowed a lot from both.

- maybe ease off on the red next time

film watcher wrote:

dad bod wrote:

It's awesome. The prophecy, Anakin's parentage, and the way the prophecy was fulfilled were all pretty epic.

Sure I guess, if you're really into bible borrowings

LOL the whole story is heavily influenced by religion. Does that make you hate it?

Yes, two of the most intriguing characters in the franchise, Darth Maul and Snoke, killed off before we can decide if it is even a big deal if they are dead or not.

Yes, Ackbar should have been the one to light-speed-ram the dreadnaught, not that purple haired, um, HighRankingOfficerWeCareNothingAbout.

theJeff wrote:

Yes, two of the most intriguing characters in the franchise, Darth Maul and Snoke, killed off before we can decide if it is even a big deal if they are dead or not.

Yes, Ackbar should have been the one to light-speed-ram the dreadnaught, not that purple haired, um, HighRankingOfficerWeCareNothingAbout.

Also there was no real need for anyone to die in carrying out this plan. Ackbar or Holdo could have done it and taken an escape pod.

Darth Maul, Snoke, Bob Fett...

It's been a perennial problem, maybe because they've always had so many good characters.

opinionator wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Yes, two of the most intriguing characters in the franchise, Darth Maul and Snoke, killed off before we can decide if it is even a big deal if they are dead or not.

Yes, Ackbar should have been the one to light-speed-ram the dreadnaught, not that purple haired, um, HighRankingOfficerWeCareNothingAbout.

Also there was no real need for anyone to die in carrying out this plan. Ackbar or Holdo could have done it and taken an escape pod.

Darth Maul, Snoke, Bob Fett...

It's been a perennial problem, maybe because they've always had so many good characters.

Ya, I agree about the escape pod... but IF you need to kill Ackbar, it shouldn't have been a "oh, by the way, Ackbar died in the corner of the screen that last scene." If HE had sacrificed himself so the others could escape... maybe he was injured in the initial blast, and stayed behind because he knew he was going to die... we would have FELT that.

Good call on Bob Fett, the lovable, usually grilling out, and always good for a power tool neighbor of Boba Fett ;-)

lothar of the hill people wrote:

Interesting aspect of killing off Snoke and Luke is that now neither Rey not Kylo Ren have a Master to complete or advance their training.

And this is what will truly bring balance.

Jedi have been hurting themselves and the quest for balance by teaching the light-dark dichotomy for millennia.

Parts of the movie felt forced, incomplete, or childish but overall they did a good job. First I'll state some things I didn't like and then follow it with some clarifications to other points or things I would have liked.

-Finn and Rose did seem forced. Their kiss at the end was as pretty one-sided middle school quality kiss. But maybe that was the Disney point to it since the movie isn't really directed 100% to adults anyway. What I did like about it is that Finn didn't fully reciprocate and was still really glad to see Rey. There is the possibility of a love triangle there or at least something more complex to give each character competing feelings to deal with.

-Leia in space was quite corny. We should have seen fluid spewing from all her pores, but instead we just saw an already old hand continue to look old. If she was going to use the force to hold it all in I would have liked to see a less peaceful effort on her part that made it more clear just what would be required to keep your sh-- together in the void of space.

-Ren and Rey could have talked it out more. I understand that good storytelling involves showing more than telling and that a lot of emotion was wrapped up in the moment, but after all those two went through to find themselves there together in that moment I would have definitely preferred to see them speak more than a few sentences about maybe finding some middle ground. If all the next movie does is bring us back to an understanding in the end that two more minutes of actual conversation could have accomplished in that moment, then we really will have wasted millions of dollars and hours of our lives.

-Snoke died without any real insight into him.

Now some things I did like or want to clarify for fun.

-Rey is still a mystery. She could be important family or not. We still don't know. And if she's not, well, finally we have a hero (heroine) we can relate to since up until now it seems like you need to be a Skywalker to matter in this space opera. It's the same reason that we like the random kid raising a broom to the sky. So I'm pleased with this movie throwing us for a loop even if temporary until it's resolved. The internet theory I liked the most is that she's a Luke clone, which is possible. We now know that somebody recovered Luke's lighstaber, but everyone forgot that it happened to be attached to his hand. Was his hand found, too? Odds are still huge we have a related pair given Ren and Rey's strange emotional link to each other.

-The code breaker was well played, but seemed so randomly placed in the Star Wars universe with such a big role. The geek in me would have liked for that to turn about to be an older Boba Fett who now relied on just his wits to keep a career going as a smuggler type rather than a bounty hunter. He even had the skin tone to pull it off. We're all still waiting and hoping that Boba Fett is somehow still involved. This character was decent regardless and maybe we'll see him next movie.

-Luke's projection and the salt planet were great. The whole salt thing served two fun purposes: 1) it wasn't snow, but got to make a joke about it and 2) we didn't see Luke's foot print, which was our indication that either he flies like a butterfly or was a projection. I really liked the projection angle, because it was a smart move by a jedi, especially if we accept that he was stuck in the middle of nowhere once Rey left. And a projection had almost unlimited potential where an old Luke would have been quite frail. It was arguably the smartest tactic we've seen employed in all the movies combined and weirdly believable once you suspend disbelief about the force.

-Humor and awareness of movies repeating things was on point in this film. The salt/snow thing was already mentioned. The wretched hive of scum and villainy in this case was actually rich upper class people. This movie combined both ESB and ROTJ by having the fleeing rebels get crushed and by having Ren/Rey face down Snoke while watching the fleet get destroyed. There are other parallels, but you get the point. We repeated some thing, but made fun of others, and now have a final movie setup with almost an entirely clean slate available to it.

-This includes the possibility even that Phasma is not dead. In the previous movie she was left in a place that was blowing up. In the most recent movie she fell far and was left in a place that was blowing up. Who is to say she won't make it out?

opinionator wrote:

- lots of suicides or suicide attempts by rebel characters - gets a bit much

Did you miss how almost the entire thematic point of the movie was to evolve the mindset from making heroic sacrifices toward saving the ones you love? That was almost literally the entire message of the movie. Poe was chastised heavily for it and it coached his development into a potential future general. Rey went to save Ren. Rose saves Finn and coins the exact quote referenced earlier. The woman general's sacrifice is poignant to Poe and Leia because she helped teach the lesson, but was still wise enough to have learned from Poe's heroic brand of behavior and know when to actually sacrifice herself. The movie makes a strong turn on the whole trope of heroic movie sacrifices and is I think one of the elements making it so well received among critics.

So. Terribly. Disappointed.

I cannot stop thinking " What the F*(&*(^ did I just watch" ?

One thing is apparent, critics are totally PAID off, reviews mean nothing. I thought this movies was going to be absolutely amazing after seeing the Force Awakens and Rogue One. Rotten Tomatoes is showing 94% 94%!!!! People were comparing this to Empire Strikes Back. However, the user rating is at a dismal 52% how is there that much disparity?

I had ZERO expectations about how the story would go, I keep seeing online people blaming those who did not like the movies as "It didn't go the way you wanted" blah blah....

I didn't have any idea on how it would go, there was no continuation from the last movie, everything that was building up in the last movie was just deflated and thrown on the screen without much thought. The story line wasn't there, the movie jumped from scene to scene and had no real cohesion.

SERIOUS lack of detail in the movie, I just don't understand.

For me this is without a doubt the worst Star Wars movies no question. For all the issues with the prequels, atleast their story line had a cohesive evolution to the whole thing.

I feel like someone died.... seriously. It is utterly depressing 24hrs later.

Shoebacca wrote:

-This includes the possibility even that Phasma is not dead. In the previous movie she was left in a place that was blowing up. In the most recent movie she fell far and was left in a place that was blowing up. Who is to say she won't make it out?

As far as we know, Phasma is no more. But at the post-screening Q&A for The Last Jedi, writer-director Rian Johnson left room for a possible return.

“Phasma is the Kenny from South Park of this series,” he joked.

Among those rooting for her return is Luke Skywalker himself. “I think she’s got to survive,” Mark Hamill said, offering up his own theory. “She falls through the flames and lands on a big pile of rubbish.”

If Luke can fall to the bottom of Cloud City and hang on to an antenna and survive I see no reason why Captain Phasma should be assumed dead.

No I get that and I realize I'm being over sensitive to the issue but hear me out. It gets to the heart of what we consider heroic sacrifice vs cowardly acts of terrorism. I thought in western culture we considered kamakazee and suicide bombings as the latter. It just seems inconsistent that when it's the good guys it's heroic. There's dying in the course of your duties and then there's just straight suicide. I don't think they've properly thought this through when it starts to become the go to tactic from the goodies. It's a small point but the movies overall morality counts for a lot.

Either way Holdo didn't need to die. If they've mastered intergalactic travel then they can remotely pilot a ship.

Also it's a dramatic cop out.

Rose is supposedly a mechanic/plumber nobody - yet she knows how to find and disable the tracker on an empire ship?

In the process they get "caught." The empire gets a defector/traitor back in Finn....

As Finn is trying to save the day by destroying the cannon, Rose side swipes him, thus thwarting any hope of holding back the Empire offensive...

And - her trinket was exactly what was needed to "break" into the area where the tracker was located...

Boilerman wrote:

Rose is supposedly a mechanic/plumber nobody - yet she knows how to find and disable the tracker on an empire ship?

In the process they get "caught." The empire gets a defector/traitor back in Finn....

As Finn is trying to save the day by destroying the cannon, Rose side swipes him, thus thwarting any hope of holding back the Empire offensive...

Given the rest of the film, Occam's razor says it's just lazy writing and Rose's character just sucks.

Was good didn't feel too long. Left lots of questions.

With Luke after reading online the directors take it makes sense. Luke is a legend. That legend sparked hope across the Galaxy. I thought that was pretty cool.

I was a little bummed with Snoke. I thought he be in all 3 movies. Maybe he will...Maul survived some how. I wanted to see Snoke fight. I guess there was a reason to doing away with Snoke.

I feel they need another movie or something to show the First Order taking over the Galaxy. It be interesting to see their extent of power and the Rebels limited power. Then that builds up to the big showdown of the Rebels and the Order. It was bleak and I enjoyed it the way the director made it go with the Rebels decimated.

The Purple Hair lady not sure her name. Would of been cool if Carrie Fisher, General Organa, went out in style like that. I thought it was cool how they showed through the duration of the movie her connection to the Force. Also her connection to her Brother as well. That also parralled Rey and Ben connection. Be cool if they were twins, but pretty sure that Han or Leia know they had a second child ha. Then for a small moment thought Rey was a clone of Darth Plagueis. Kind of set Rey up as another Anakin feel like, which is cool.

Yoda and Luke scenes were great. Would of been interesting if saw more training scenes with Luke and Rey. Also Luke and Ben.

The Rule of Two. My wife and I were discussing this. It's done...so are the Sith and Jedi done. Is power balanced or there's no way to balance power...or Rey a grey Jedi...so lost on this. Is Kylo a Sith and that scene from TFA with his Knights are those Sith. Will Rey restore the Jedi Order. I don't know...very perplexed on this.

The character Ross enjoyed. The storyline for them going to the Casino guess served a purpose in that good and bad it's blended at times. As Bencio del Toro character explained. Liked his character to want to see more of him. Also Captain Phasma has to come back.

Was hoping Finn would of kissed Poe. I understand not letting Finn die led to Luke's final stand.

The First Order where are all there ships.

Anyways awesome movie think it was a mature movie with comedy drama and roller coaster of emotions.