Katelyn Tuohy 5k Record Attempt

Every coach says they’re training their athlete with long-term success as the goal. We’ve heard this said about Al*na H*dley, Grace Ping, Mary Cain.

"We stress consistency and taking it very slowly when adding quality or quantity, making proper effort and execution more important than times in workouts. We also limit the amount of racing that she does.“ -dad of h*dley

"The first time we sat down he said, 'This is a 10-year program. I don't want you peaking at age 16,” -Alberto Salazar

“This is all buildup for the future“ -Tinman

If any coach told Tuohy she can’t run faster than 3:36/K in workouts do you think they’d be coaching her much longer? She’s likely in shape to run around 3:08/K for 5000. 3:36/K is around her projected marathon pace.

A Real Jackass wrote:

If any coach told Tuohy she can’t run faster than 3:36/K in workouts do you think they’d be coaching her much longer? She’s likely in shape to run around 3:08/K for 5000. 3:36/K is around her projected marathon pace.

You’re manipulating my words. I never said she should be running 3:36 1000s right now. I was talking about last season, when her coach didn’t have any reason to believe she was in sub-16 5k shape.

Thanks for the info. It's nice to hear that she's being coached well with her best long-term interests in mind. She has a really bright future and it's nice to know that her coach isn't going to get in the way of that. I think 10 years from now she'll be the best 5k/10k runner in the USA and a legitimate medal threat at Global Championships.

robert678 wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Does it take more than six weeks to recover from a 5K race which she won easily? The girl was absolutely unchallenged all season.

She probably peaked for NXN and then likely took a break. I thought that was implied. At full fitness she smashes the record easily I think, but so soon after NXN, I'm not sure.

Yeah sure. She probably peaked for that one race. So then, she's got nothing else left in her. Peaked? One of the most overrated word in distance running.

Remember a girl named Sarah Baxter who ran what was called the greatest high school cross country performance in history - 16:00 at Mt. Sac? Sarah was only running 35 miles a week and being "groomed for the future." Well, she ran slower in college than she did as a 15-year old. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

...but then there is the facts wrote:

Great rant... except that the window to be a world class athlete is not mid 20s to late 30s. Thats what too many people on here argue.

Go ahead and look up the fastest 5k and 10k times ever run. The average age of the PR for a top 5k runner is 21 years old and many of these runners were in there prime at 18-20 years old.

Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) Age 21 12:37.35

Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) Age 25 12:39.36

Daniel Komen (KEN) Age 21 12:39.74

Eliud Kipchoge (KEN) Age 19 12:46.53

Dejen Gebremeskel (ETH) Age 22 12:46.81

Sileshi Sihine (ETH) Age 21 12:47.04

Hagos Gebriwhet (ETH) Age 18 12:47.53

Isaiah Koech (KEN) Age 18 12:48.64

Isaac Songok (KEN) Age 22 12:48.66

Yenew Alamirew (ETH) Age 22 12:48.77

Stephen Cherono (KEN) Age 20 12:48.81

Thomas Longosiwa (KEN) Age 20 12:49.04

Average Age 20.75 years old

Many of those guys are older than the age you have listed. For example Daniel Komen's family says he was much older than 21 when he ran that time. If you stick with top USA times (or anywhere with reliable birth certificates), you would see a much different average.

Bob kennedy ~ 26 years old when he ran his old US record

rupp ~ 25 years old when he broke the 10k record

solinsky ~ 26 when he broke 27 for 10k

ritz ~ 27 when he ran the us 5k record...

tegenkamp ~ 27 when he broke 13 for 5k..

yeah, i would say unless africans peak REALLY early (age cheats) the average age you peak (as science says) is around 26/27... sigh.

IOX wrote:

Remember a girl named Sarah Baxter who ran what was called the greatest high school cross country performance in history - 16:00 at Mt. Sac? Sarah was only running 35 miles a week and being "groomed for the future." Well, she ran slower in college than she did as a 15-year old. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

Yes, this is Tuohy's year. She should not let it pass hoping that this will continue or even get better next year and the year after. Ask Baxter or Cain or.... Otherwise, she will regret it. I hope that she breaks all HS records from 1500m up this year.

I wasn't trying to manipulate your words, truly. However, I'm wondering if you think 3:20/K is sub-16 5K pace? Cause it's not. Anyway, in 8th grade, months before you saw that workout, she ran a 4:24 1500 (June 11). That's a pretty typical time of someone who is in about 16:20-16:30 5000 shape. 3:20/K is on pace for 16:40. 3:20/K isn't that fast for a 4:24-1500 runner. I would be less concerned with her running fast in workouts and much more concerned with her being exceptionally lean. As long as it's not being forced and she's just naturally very lean, that's fine, but she's a long ways off from being a woman, that much is sure. Like others have said, we have to wait and see how she matures. In the meantime, I don't see issue with what her and her coach are doing.

A Real Coach wrote:

A Real Jackass wrote:

If any coach told Tuohy she can’t run faster than 3:36/K in workouts do you think they’d be coaching her much longer? She’s likely in shape to run around 3:08/K for 5000. 3:36/K is around her projected marathon pace.

You’re manipulating my words. I never said she should be running 3:36 1000s right now. I was talking about last season, when her coach didn’t have any reason to believe she was in sub-16 5k shape.

From the evidence we have at hand-the above interview (which BTW is not behind a paywall) + not too bad of racing by Katelynn, I place far more faith in coach Digby than in an anonymous "coach" posting their criticism on this thread.

I never said that 3:20 was sub-16 pace. I was just emphasizing that she is racing much faster now than she was last season. But young runners typically don’t perform as well at longer distances as they do at shorter distances since they’re less developed aerobically. It would be poor judgement for Diglio to train Katelyn at a 5k pace she’s never run, even if her results at shorter distances show the potential to run such a time in the future.

Will she be going down the same road as Cain?

fred wrote:

Will she be going down the same road as Cain?

No, she lives upstate from Bronxville. Probably will never go down the same road as Cain.

A Real Coach wrote:

I never said that 3:20 was sub-16 pace. I was just emphasizing that she is racing much faster now than she was last season. But young runners typically don’t perform as well at longer distances as they do at shorter distances since they’re less developed aerobically. It would be poor judgement for Diglio to train Katelyn at a 5k pace she’s never run, even if her results at shorter distances show the potential to run such a time in the future.

How does anything you wrote quoted at the bottom emphasize that she is racing faster now than she was last season?

And why would it be poor judgement for a coach to have their athlete train at a pace faster than they could run for 5K? Are athletes not allowed to run faster than 5K pace during the XC season?

I'm unsure why you wouldn't want someone to ever feel challenged in a workout simply because they are young. At what point is it acceptable to challenge oneself in a workout? What about life in general? Do you think it's ok if she takes a math class that challenges her, or should she wait until college for something so distressing? Or should girls avoid stress altogether?

"Unfortunately, we're seeing a pattern that has been repeated umpteen times. In interviews, Katelyn always repeats the same line- "I knew that the other girls hadn't done anything like the workouts I've done." She appears to gain a great deal of confidence from 1) her apparently grueling workouts, and 2) her evident superiority over the rest of the field. This is not a great mindset to have. At her level, her coach should not be giving her workouts that push her so intensely. She should not feel challenged by her workouts at this point, since peaking too young is such a common problem. There was a workout of the week that featured her school from last fall, and she was doing 1k repeats at 3:20 pace. That's way too fast for a freshman girl, period. He shouldn't have let her do them any faster than 3:36 (18:00 5k pace). Also, she should NOT be trying to break records every single race. At her level, it would be much better to have fun with racing- tempo some races, try to run with the pack for the first 3 miles then demolish the last .1 to work on her kick, etc. She's gotta get used to running in the pack, since she won't always be able to outrun her competition so easily."

Even the most brutal 20 x 1K session wouldn't hold a match to the mindf### that awaits the poor girl if she ever were to open this thread and see all these no-life j####ffs dissecting her career like it was a space alien that dropped out of the f###ing sky and held the secret to time travel and eternal salvation or perdition.

If she's properly paced, it's a piece of cake.

Equiv of Sisson's NCAA record goes too.

A Real Coach wrote:

Unfortunately, we're seeing a bunch of blah blah blah nonsense from me.

I like french toast wrote:

Bob kennedy ~ 26 years old when he ran his old US record

rupp ~ 25 years old when he broke the 10k record

solinsky ~ 26 when he broke 27 for 10k

ritz ~ 27 when he ran the us 5k record...

tegenkamp ~ 27 when he broke 13 for 5k.

No one ever heard of those guys in high school........ oh......... wait