Gotta bee wrote:
4 FL regions, 9 nike ones, not hard to see that FL regions are deeper....
Unless the better runners go to NXN.
Gotta bee wrote:
4 FL regions, 9 nike ones, not hard to see that FL regions are deeper....
Unless the better runners go to NXN.
Self serving coaches tend to focus on Nx because they get a more for themselves by going there, so they tend to trash FL and push their kids to run in Portland. You see a lot of this on the boards from this type of coaches.
When top runners run both races, they tend to save their best efforts for the FL championship.
It was nice to see that Jacob's coach was fully in support of his plan, not just the last week but all through the season.
A mix of priorities wrote:
When top runners run both races, they tend to save their best efforts for the FL championship.
.
This is ridiculous, if they really wanted to “save their best effort” they wouldn’t go through the trouble to run NXN if their team didn’t make it. Why risk getting sick on the plane flights or injured in the race when you can just skip it and train a bit more at home to run FL? Runners just don’t do that. Take 2014 for example when the second place finisher at NXN (Olin Hacker) got second at Footlocker. Do you think he purposely “saved it” and got second at NXN to try and win Footlocker? No. Look at last year when Seth Hirsh took the pace over at NXN to try and beat Clinger even though he had Footlocker the next weekend. This year Kilrea went for it to try and beat Troutner and Hasty to be the consensus US number 1. If the runners really wanted to save it for FL they just wouldn’t show up to NXN.
A mix of priorities wrote:
Self serving coaches tend to focus on Nx because they get a more for themselves by going there, so they tend to trash FL and push their kids to run in Portland. You see a lot of this on the boards from this type of coaches.
When top runners run both races, they tend to save their best efforts for the FL championship.
It was nice to see that Jacob's coach was fully in support of his plan, not just the last week but all through the season.
This is just so illogical. If your focus is on the JV race in San Diego, you don't fly to Portland and back the week before. That is just such stupid thinking.
Also, self serving coaches don't develop good teams year after year.
You are a clown.
Nonononono wrote:
The fifth place finisher has a 3200 PR of 9:15.
When I saw that I wanted to do some research to see how much faster nike was this year.
Nike's and footlocker top 10 average
3200/2mile was 9:02.82 Nike
3200/2mile was 9:09.77 FL
http://www.grun1.com/utils/timeCalc.html?t1=9:16&c1=dylan%204:07&t2=9:17.9&c2=graydon%204:16&t3=9:00.8&c3=kilrea%204:12&t4=9:01.7&c4=tatter%204:23&t5=9:30.6&c5=renfree%204:26&t6=9:07&c6=cheeseman%204:12&t7=9:05&c7=bosley%204:21&t8=9:13.9&c8=thompson4:23&t9=8:59.4&c9=mendez%204:11&t10=9:05.4&c10=hart%20%204:09&c11=FL&mode=0&fs3=1&ft2=1&f3t1=1&f4t0=1&d=:&o1=1&fps=http://www.grun1.com/utils/timeCalc.html?t1=9:03.5&c1=Aidan%20Troutner%204:12&t2=8:45&c2=brodey%204:01&t3=9:03.4&c3=anderson%204:11&t4=8:54&c4=mwuara%204:11&t5=9:00.8&c5=kilrea%204:12&t6=8:56.6&c6=horter%204:07&t7=9:05&c7=bosley%204:21&t8=9:14&c8=smith%204:12&t9=9:15&c9=hicks%204:24&t10=9:10.9&c10=hussein%204:12&mode=0&fs3=1&ft2=1&f3t1=1&f4t0=1&d=:&o1=1&fps=1600/mile was 4:12.3 Nike
1600/mile was 4:16.0 FL
http://www.grun1.com/utils/timeCalc.html?t1=4:12&c1=troutner&t2=4:01&c2=hasty&t3=4:11&c3=anderson&t4=4:11&c4=mwuara&t5=4:12&c5=kilrea&t6=4:07&c6=horter&t7=4:21&c7=bosley&t8=4:12&c8=smith&t9=4:24&c9=hicks&t10=4:12&c10=hussein&mode=0&fs3=1&ft2=1&f3t1=1&f4t0=1&d=:&o1=1&fps=http://www.grun1.com/utils/timeCalc.html?t1=4:07&t2=4:16&t3=4:12&t4=4:23&t5=4:26&t6=4:12&t7=4:21&t8=4:23&t9=4:11&t10=4:09&mode=0&fs3=1&ft2=1&f3t1=1&f4t0=1&d=:&o1=1&fps=I could go and check the top 40 but I bet the average times would start to lean towards Footlocker then
Maybe the difference in the athletes' placement reflects their targeting of FL. Just a thought. Most guys I know run harder at the race they've prioritized.
A few reasons why they might show up A) it's exposure (this helps with recruiting at the school they may be going to) B) a trip to a different part of the country C) Free schwag D) a chance to race against great competition ( and doesn't the argument really end there?). You seem to be forgetting that many of these kids actually like to RACE. The bigger the opportunity, the better.
Is it possible that both events are of value? As much as people on a message board care about who the #1 runner in the country is; my feeling is that kids just don't. Sure they compete and run to win, but five minutes after the race, they are talking and laughing - focusing on what's next. This is HS and even a head to head race can't always categorically determine the best runner. I personally love what Nike has done for the sport by putting on the Nike Regional races and the Nike National Races. With nine different regions, it gives a ton of kids one last shot to run fast at the end of the year. In addition, as a coach who has coached individual state champions and team state champions, kids will tell you that the team titles always mean more because they are something they can share with others for the rest of their lives. NXN is special for the individuals who qualify, but it is truly something amazing for the teams who get to go. Sure I want kids to reach their individual potential, but if we aren't teaching these kids how to be good teammates and better people, why are we in this? I don't run in Nike shoes, but I have to take my hat off to them for running an amazing set of meets and treating cross country runners like they are special. In a state where a State Championship might warrant two paragraphs on page six of the sports section, feeling like your sport matters is awesome. I prefer to take my kids to NXR because it provides great competition for our team and for individuals, but footlocker is an amazing experience as well. Many kids don't have a supporting cast, so being able to run at footlocker, where everyone is without a "team" can be a great way to meet new runners and have some fun. I hope they both continue - we have a huge country and I don't think it is necessary to crown a champion of high school. Let's save that for college and the professional ranks.
I've been to both NXN and FL several times. The experience at NXN is light years ahead of FL. I still very much enjoyed both.
FL could put a major dent in NXN if they changed their qualifying process in such a way to offer berths before NXN does. For instance, in California, FL, which already uses the Mt SAC course for it's FLW qualifier, could instead use the Mt. SAC Invite as it's qualifier. Not necessarily saying to offer up all 10 spots from that race, but they could offer spots to the top 5 five fastest times of the weekend or something of that sort.
It's a huge risk for a CA kid to qualify for NXN and then turn it down and try to qualify for FL. The second placed CA girl at FL was "only" 13th at the CA state meet. NXN is clearly getting the better quality athletes on average.
Top 5 from Mt SAC Invite
Boys:
Meika Beaudoin 14:33 (went to FL)
Kevin Ramos 14:39 (went to NXN)
Colin Fitzgerald 14:40 (went to NXN)
Carlos Carvajal 14:42 (went to NXN with team, so it'd roll down to 6th)
Xavier Court 14:44 (missed qualifying for NXN by 3 seconds, didn't do FLW)
Liam Anderson 14:51 (went to NXN)
Girls:
Claudia Lane 15:49 (went to FL)
Lauren Peurifoy 16:42 (went to NXN)
Tori Gaitain 16:52 (went to NXN with team, roll down to 6th)
Kristen Fahy 16:54 (ran in very warm D3 race at state and collapsed about 100 meters before the line, didn't end up qualifying for either)
Mariah Castillo 17:00 (went to NXN)
Haley Herberg 17:05 (went to NXN)
Great post, as the young guys say
End of thread
Dadfan wrote:
A few reasons why they might show up A) it's exposure (this helps with recruiting at the school they may be going to) B) a trip to a different part of the country C) Free schwag D) a chance to race against great competition ( and doesn't the argument really end there?). You seem to be forgetting that many of these kids actually like to RACE. The bigger the opportunity, the better.
You should read past posts of mine before posting something like this. I think it’s great for the best athletes to do both and was simply refuting another poster who suggested that the top athletes show up to NXN and mail it in before Footlocker (not the case). I’m not “forgetting that many of these kids actually like to RACE”, you are forgetting to read posts more carefully!
For what it's worth, Dyestat just posted their year end rankings, and Milesplit posted theirs a couple days ago. No real surprises. Both had the exact same boys 1-5: Troutner, Hasty, Anderson, Mwaura, Jacobs. On the girls side, Dyestat had Tuohy, Lane, Hart, Theis, Chmiel. Milesplit had Tuohy, Lane, Hart, Theis, Chmiel. Personally, I agree with Chmiel 3rd since she beat Hart head-to-head pretty handily. But, Hart ran both FL and NXN and did great at both.
end of year rankings wrote:
For what it's worth, Dyestat just posted their year end rankings, and Milesplit posted theirs a couple days ago. No real surprises. Both had the exact same boys 1-5: Troutner, Hasty, Anderson, Mwaura, Jacobs. On the girls side, Dyestat had Tuohy, Lane, Hart, Theis, Chmiel. Milesplit had Tuohy, Lane, Hart, Theis, Chmiel. Personally, I agree with Chmiel 3rd since she beat Hart head-to-head pretty handily. But, Hart ran both FL and NXN and did great at both.
Oops. Typo. Dyestat had Tuohy, Lane, Chmiel, Hart, Theis. (Chmiel in third instead of fifth).