Thanks to Nike and FL we will not know who the national champion is for either boys or girls.
Thanks to Nike and FL we will not know who the national champion is for either boys or girls.
I didn't get that feeling about Claudia lane "working as hard as she could" at state. Heat of the day, several false starts, way ahead. There was no reason to go all out and it looked like she mailed it in.
Muddler wrote:
I didn't get that feeling about Claudia lane "working as hard as she could" at state. Heat of the day, several false starts, way ahead. There was no reason to go all out and it looked like she mailed it in.
If she can break the Woodward Park course record by 10 seconds on a warm day by "mailing it in" she is on a different level than any high school girl we have seen before. It seems that Tuohy is as well. What a shame there is no head-to-head between these athletes. They are both having seasons for the ages and who knows where they will be next year.
That's what I got when Claudia passed by. Although her form is interesting and can be "questioned", everything about her looks high level college, or even elite level. She looks much stronger than last year.
Same with Tuohy. A lot of power in her stride.
Too bad corporate has to split up the talent. This matchup could have potentially been one for the ages if they both showed up to the same event and brought their A game.
my lord.... wrote:
Someone has to tell you guys/girls to just stop... you can not determine who is the better runner by some damn subjective measurement you just made up... who gives a rats a%%... they'll see who is better every time they race each other in a few years and my guess is if they race enough it will go back and forth..... no need to try to determine who is the better runner right now. Really it's true... no need.
let it go.
Thank goodness you joined the thread! Before you showed up, I was worried that people would continue talking about something that interests them with like-minded individuals!
Good analysis. My opinion is if she breaks the Footlocker course record , she’s equal. That’s what I think it’ll take . Hard task tho, it’s held for like 20 yrs or somethin
LegendaryLane wrote:
If Claudia breaks Balboa's course record (16:39) she is the GOAT. That record has been there since 1990 and it's legit.
Rainsberger's record was only 2 years old. The FL course has so much more history. Though to be honest if Katelyn ran how she did at NXN at FL, I think she would dip under the course record as well so it's tough to say...
In perfect conditions, same temperature and sun exposure, Bolboa park is still easily 20 seconds slower than the Portland course. As we know, the conditions in Portland are always subpar, as in this year, it rained and the course was muddy, which makes Touhy's 16:44 even more impressive.
BUT even if that slowed it down 20 seconds, you're still looking at 16:24 at perfect conditions which is definitely reasonable considering she ran 16:52 on a monster course and the Portland course is pretty smooth.
I would say if Lane broke Touhy's time from NXN then it would be a better relative performance and before anyone starts to argue, if you don't know the significance of a HS girl breaking 16:44 at Bolboa park, I don't know what to tell you. That's just insane.
And certainly in Lane's wheel house just from her 15:49 2.92 miler at Mt Sac. But she might just be racing to win. I heard there's a girl from Michigan who could challenge her so maybe she won't want to risk blowing up and just take it with a mile or mile.5 to go.
NOP Skeptic wrote:
I heard there's a girl from Michigan who could challenge her so maybe she won't want to risk blowing up and just take it with a mile or mile.5 to go.
Would love to see this. Who is she?
my lord.... wrote:
Someone has to tell you guys/girls to just stop... you can not determine who is the better runner by some damn subjective measurement you just made up... who gives a rats a%%... they'll see who is better every time they race each other in a few years and my guess is if they race enough it will go back and forth..... no need to try to determine who is the better runner right now. Really it's true... no need.
let it go.
Thank you. My sentiments are exactly the same.
Stalemate wrote:
Thanks to Nike and FL we will not know who the national champion is for either boys or girls.
Teams were decided yesterday at the Nike X team championships.
The individual champions will be decided next week at the Footlocker National Championship.
Why is Tuohy even in this discussion?
Last year, the best prep boy was Clinger at NXN. Girls was a draw between Oakley and Lane, just like this year between Tuohy and Lane, and between Troutner and whoever wins FL.
Welcome to 2017. NXN has gotten too strong on the individual side to ignore anymore.
Olivia Theiss will be in position for the win at footlocker. Last 800 meters will be epic.
You guys are forgetting that Claudia Lane was on the Alexi Pappas vlog and that pretty clearly makes her the superior runner
Mods, you should merge this thread into the "Officially Unofficial Lane vs. Tuohy Thread", as this is what they've been talking about over there.
Caltran wrote:
NOP Skeptic wrote:
I heard there's a girl from Michigan who could challenge her so maybe she won't want to risk blowing up and just take it with a mile or mile.5 to go.
Would love to see this. Who is she?
Olivia Theis, has run 16:52 on a moderate course
I don't think she'll beat Lane, but rather just challenge. Like I said, I don't think Lane will want to risk blowing up with her company.
NOP Skeptic wrote:
I don't think Lane will want to risk blowing up with her company.
You've apparently not been watching her races all season.
Stalemate wrote:
Last year, the best prep boy was Clinger at NXN.
In fact, every year the best runners at that race are the best runners at that race.
I appreciate the insight behind this analysis. But I think it is tough to predict results based on common opponents at different times of the season. But still, it is interesting. Thanks for putting it together.
So, I thought about whether 16:15 at FL nationals is out of reach for Claudia. I think it is not, for two reasons.
First, in the FL west regionals on 12/2, Claudia ran 16 seconds faster than Amber Trotter's 2001 record. In 2001, Amber Trotter went on to shatter the Footlocker Nationals record by 15 seconds, running 16:24. If you impute from that, Lane could run 16:08 at FL nationals, which would be faster than the 16:15 level imputed by your analysis.
Another line of reasoning has to do with how earth-shattering her demolition of the Mt. SAC record was. She utterly crushed it, just as Katelynn did in NY. Both of these were generational performances.
In the end, I think your analysis is interesting, but looking at the body of work, it is hard to conclude more than that there are two, once in a generation HS XC runners out demolishing everything they put their legs on, even highly revered course records.
Sure would be nice to see them race.
John
One other note on this, keeping again in mind that I appreciate the analysis.
MT SAC seems to have been the only race Claudia really took herself to the limit in this year. She finished in 15:49. Castillo was ran 17:00, for a difference of 71 seconds. Katelyn at NXN best Castillo by 52 seconds.
Again, my point is that IMHO if you look closely at what they were actually doing this year ... the only conclusion you can reach is that these are maybe the two greatest female HS XC runners in history and it would be great to see them race.
Claudia said she wants to go to world juniors in Scotland. Is Katelyn going?
John