Wardian is amazing. A legend. Wish he was better known for his endurance feats.
Wardian is amazing. A legend. Wish he was better known for his endurance feats.
DougC wrote:
dad bod wrote:
Using a TUE is literally following the rules.
Some would say it's *abusing* the rules by finding a doctor who will diagnose a "condition" that is considered normal aging by the rest of the world. Sometimes in life you can follow the letter of the law, but still be an unethical asshat.
Additionally, I highly doubt any Masters road racer actually submitted a TUE. They are getting exogenous testosterone and that's breaking the "rules".
Why are you so bent out of shape about this? Weird when the issue of TRT comes up (always seems to happen on LRC) It's funny - the forum that should most likely be discussing this issue would be the 50+ master training forum, and yet there's absolutely no threads on it whatsoever. So, either they don't care (and don't get all bent out of shape like you do) or they've accepted TRT as part of the growing trend of middle-aged men pursuing running & other endurance sports.
Que Sera Sera.....
Why are you so bent out of shape about this? Weird when the issue of TRT comes up (always seems to happen on LRC) It's funny - the forum that should most likely be discussing this issue would be the 50+ master training forum, and yet there's absolutely no threads on it whatsoever. So, either they don't care (and don't get all bent out of shape like you do) or they've accepted TRT as part of the growing trend of middle-aged men pursuing running & other endurance sports.
Que Sera Sera.....
Why shouldn't he be bent out of shape about it? Guys doing stuff like that are taking money out of my pocket. Both directly at races and by rewriting the age grading tables. It sucks to be a younger guy who has to follow Castille knowing that the age grading tables are being rewritten as we speak. So it will be much harder to score higher in the years to come at championships against doped up standards, which directly affects prize money that can be won. Ticks me off to no end how some people on here are so casual about it.
And yes, the 50+ do care. I hear it all the time. And they're pissed off.
HRE wrote:
I wouldn't even know where to begin to get testosterone therapy .
Do you ever listen to the radio? There are at least 2 ads for this every hour on pretty much every classic rock station. All you have to do is call the phone number.
EnragedRedneck wrote:
by rewriting the age grading tables. It sucks to be a younger guy who has to follow Castille knowing that the age grading tables are being rewritten as we speak. ff.
Rewriting the age grading tables is stupid in itself. They should pick one base and stay with that. They have made it a moving target that means little to me as I age. I am only interested in comparing my present self to my younger self. By changing the tables those numbers become meaningless.
Trying to get you hooked...... wrote:
HRE wrote:
I wouldn't even know where to begin to get testosterone therapy .
Do you ever listen to the radio? There are at least 2 ads for this every hour on pretty much every classic rock station. All you have to do is call the phone number.
I hardy ever listen to the radio and if I do I'm in the car. Whenever commercials come on I immediately change stations or turn it off. Anyway, thanks, just in case I ever want to have a go.
Who cares about the outliers...... wrote:
EnragedRedneck wrote:
by rewriting the age grading tables. It sucks to be a younger guy who has to follow Castille knowing that the age grading tables are being rewritten as we speak. ff.
I am only interested in comparing my present self to my younger self. .
I would suggest you work on your sense of humor if that's the case, you'll be needing it.
It might not be a bad idea to keep the older itierations of the WMA tables around, since those were less affected by TRT etc..
Also, when Lagat, Abdi and Meb get done, things are going to look quite different.
Cousin Eddie wrote:
Michael Wardian ran the 50 on Saturday
Kevin Castille is 45
Ya'll keep up
So Wardian has run a sub-30 10k in all 50 states while Castille has only done so in 45 states? At least we know which guy is the communist!
Hdkddkd wrote:
Eatly 40’s and sub 16. Seeing how light Castille is and how consistently he’s performed from late 30’s to now, I’m not surprised he’s running this fast. Good for him.
Come on, he ran a 28:53 10,000m at age 41. And he wasn't even tired at the end. That is nuts.
I think it's awesome that Kevin C. is running as fast as he is.
On the other hand, it's not awesome that other people in my age group are starting to justify doping. I care about training and competition. If you can beat me clean, great. If you're taking PEDs, stay the hell out of my race.
Is he still on parole for his felony convictions?
no T wrote:
I care about training and competition. If you can beat me clean, great. If you're taking PEDs, stay the hell out of my race.
Too bad the pros didn't think like that. Lol.
dad bod wrote:
DougC wrote:
First, who says taking Testosterone (even if prescribed by a doctor) if following rules?
Using a TUE is literally following the rules.
you can not get a TUE for Testosterone !!!!!
#cleansport wrote:
dad bod wrote:
Using a TUE is literally following the rules.
you can not get a TUE for Testosterone !!!!!
Yes you can !!!!!
http://roidvisor.com/usada-permits-recreational-athletes-use-anabolic-steroids-long-promise-lose-races/Why is this thread about testosterone cheating, and not Castille's training. I mean I get doping accusations, this is letsrun. But do I have to be the first to suggest this guy is clean?
All of you who think Castille is clean are living in a fantasy world. The same fantasy world in which FloJo, Genzebe Dibaba, Hicham El Guerrouj, Wang Junxia and Jarmila Kratochvilova are all clean. Seriously, you guys are delusional. It's one thing to be optimistic and take the "innocent until proven guilty" view, but there's a point when it's just sticking your head in the sand.
Kvothe wrote:
Why is this thread about testosterone cheating, and not Castille's training. I mean I get doping accusations, this is letsrun. But do I have to be the first to suggest this guy is clean?
I say this pretty consistently: whatever you may suspect about Castille, you should have some basis for your accusations beyond mere performance before anonymously accusing him of doping.
One thing that I think is fair to discuss is his pedigree, which has been raised a few times. This guy was a pretty average high school runner (something like a mid 4:20s 1600m runner), and didn't improve at all in college (26s or 27s for 8000m xc).
As to his fairly non-descript high school career, there are plenty of late bloomers, so that is certainly not dispositive of his natural talent. I expect that his sub-par college career was due in large part to his extra-curricular activities - the guy was out all night doing things that put him on the wrong side of the law, so we know he wasn't exactly getting good sleep, at a minimum, and I expect that his training wasn't his primary focus. I know I left lots of time on the table during college as a result of my excessive drinking and a training regimen that was pretty inconsistent until after my sophomore year.
Assume that he is clean (even if you don't believe it, just assume it for the sake of doing the thought exercise, and heck, this is America, let's assume he is innocent until proven guilty). With him running 14:10's and 29:40s (or thereabout) at age 45, can you imagine the times that he would have put up based on the natural talent that this reflects had he focused his energies on training the way he must now? And I legitimately believe, without question, that the guy puts in tons of hard and focused work now.
Forget what the age grading tables say - those are useful, and I use them to motivate myself all of the time, but they are skewed because the world's best rarely keep pushing themselves to their limits at later ages - what do you think he could have run at age 28 or so based on his times at age 45?
DougC wrote:
Because the "condition" they diagnose is the normal aging process. Testosterone in males steadily declines during middle age and these T Centers just reverse that normal aging process. The fact that the medical field calls it a "condition" so that it's covered by insurance, doesn't change the fact that it's performance enhancing doping.
I disagree with doping and I personally think that distance running should be made strictly amateur again to remove the financial incentive to dope. The other advantage of doing this would be that people would not be feeling "robbed" it they were beaten by someone who was doping - the doper would probably be risking their health for no material gain.
However I do think that aging should be viewed as a disease and science should be working hard to solve this biological problem that we all face. I think that means developing new therapies that work to stop/reverse the aging process at the cellular level and does not mean doctors giving masters athletes testosterone so that they can run faster in races ....
"I disagree with doping and I personally think that distance running should be made strictly amateur again to remove the financial incentive to dope."
I think we should also eliminate the clock and maybe even the distance standards. We could all just go run or maybe just walk...... No competition... no times. No standards. No records. This would be awesome. Let's eliminate any reason to be fast and fit.