I was at the race today and an OK State guy was next to me saying how the entire team got pinned at the start and fell. IDK if that's true or not, but just what I heard. Also LaVern is soooo much better than Tom Sawyer.
I was at the race today and an OK State guy was next to me saying how the entire team got pinned at the start and fell. IDK if that's true or not, but just what I heard. Also LaVern is soooo much better than Tom Sawyer.
Stillwater, Oklahoma doesn't make for much of a recruiting pitch...
Doing much better than Wisco
Wisco and OK State have similar stories (not identical)
Let me start off by saying I was a cowboy quite awhile ago and have nothing to do with OSU or anyone who currently runs/works there, so my words are from MY experience years ago. I am choosing my words carefully, but I can confirm that relationships between Dave and his athletes are (or were) generally about as poor as is possible between two human beings. As for training, it is my opinion the talent at that school would be far better off running 60-100mpw totally by feel with some strides mixed in here and there and one threshold run a week than what I experienced while there. OSU was able to run well for awhile due to the extreme depth of talent (due to their recruiting "tactics") and some luck. "Stability" is not "OSU's" strong point... *cough*.
Flocrap wrote:
Wisco and OK State have similar stories (not identical)
Ironically I have heard very specific stories about Dave Smith and Mick Byrne running certain kids off the team by basically telling them they had to run 100 mph and either survive or move on. Perhaps that coaching tactic is catching up with them
Dave Days wrote:
Its the new generation of Millenial atheletes coming up, they are all a bunch of snowflake pansies who can't hang with hard workouts like bad*sses in the past ie. German Hernadez could.
This tired trope again. If it were true, no team with American millennials would be competitive.
YMMV wrote:
good pt wrote:
Not sure if I entirely agree with you there. They had some damn good americans too: German Fernandez and Colby Lowe
How can you guys talk about Smith successes and not immediately mention Ryan Vail?
Exactly. They don't have any Ryan Vail's or Colby Low's or Tom Farrell's. Those guys were the backbone of OSU XC. Leaders.
Certainly some of the reason they have taken a step back is from a bigger vision of expanding to a more well-rounded track team from the distance-only philosophy they had early on, but there is a much larger problem in Stillwater these days. The culture. Dave and Bobby have always been able to recruit top talent - US or foreign - but they do not seem to recruit guys these days that are good for the culture. They have always recruited only off of fast times and never on if they are coachable, humble, and good people. These things matter.
Harshhh wrote:
It is too bad that these athletes are wasting their college careers running for Dave. Even the Americans that OSU does get are pretty talented guys who I'm sure would develop into elite runners somewhere else. I personally know a runner on the team and he has told me some similar things about Smith. Thanks for giving us your point of view.
The message you responded too was removed, and I wanted to see what it was.
In general, it would be interesting to create a database about coaches that could help athletes and others look at people's performances before and after transferring from one school to another, rate of injuries, academic success, and bring transparency to a situation that looks at what coaches are actually doing in the same way that coaches look at runners.
whoever wrote that last message is definitely Dave Smith or someone within Ok state's organization. How else would he be able to comment on the team culture which he had been harping about all season. However the culture problem does not arise from the athletes it arises from the hubris of the coaching staff.
This obvious Dave? wrote:
whoever wrote that last message is definitely Dave Smith or someone within Ok state's organization. How else would he be able to comment on the team culture which he had been harping about all season. However the culture problem does not arise from the athletes it arises from the hubris of the coaching staff.
My comments which contain no curse words keep getting removed. Interesting.
It starts at the top. As i stated before in my original post (which was deleted), it doesn’t help the hardcore culture that was there by having a ton of walk ins who aren’t as serious taking up the facilities and generally being Unfocused. Bad seeds were allowed to stay on the team also. My comments keep getting deleted. Dave must have a good friend with LR.
I think he just cries about everything til he gets his way. People don’t want to hear the whining so they give into him.
German is a volunteer coach now at OK. Why would he go back?
He's a charity case
Katey B. wrote:
German is a volunteer coach now at OK. Why would he go back?
He trusts in people. He trusts in Smith and he shouldn't.
It would have been better for him to go his own way.
On the positive side, if Smith quits, then German could take over the program and do well.
Long since removed wrote:
I already posted on this thread under this same handle but feel the need to say a bit more since so many other posts have been deleted. I'll again have to choose my words carefully since any post that gives explicit details about Dave gets deleted, so just keep in mind this is an extremely watered down version of what I would like to say and what I would tell you in person.
What recruits see on their visits is carefully fabricated fantasy. That is why so much naive talent goes there. The reality turns out to be very different. Many recruits felt they were lied to about a lot of different things, not just given a skewed impression but straight up lied to. Also, saying Dave treats his athletes badly is an enormous understatement. Anyone who behaved the way he does to other full grown men rather than powerless 19-year-old kids would have their head knocked off. No one deserves to put up with that kind of treatment. Apparently little Davey has some self-esteem and ego issues so he's doing what he can to feel important. No one respects a person who acts like that though.
The training is BAD. Dave is actually a pretty intelligent guy, so it's hard to understand why the training is so poor. Being berated daily before, during, and after workouts while being run into the ground makes it hard to keep a positive attitude also. Personally, my body was never the same after running at OSU, and I, like most, did not even last very long. I developed chronic fatigue syndrome and was never able to train like I could in high school, so even after transferring I was never the same. There are probably more than 100 others like me by now. We are the rule. Vail is the exception.
It's good to see others speak out and the program fail. Karma eventually catches up to everyone. It is only starting to catch up to Dave.
Great, insightful post. Hopefully the mods don't delete it as this is exactly the kind of stuff that I'd want to know if I were a potential recruit
Culture is created from the team, not the coach. To biotch about a coach is a sign of a weak athlete. It is very important for athletes to accept responsibility. College coaching is about recruiting. Dave could be very guilty of bringing in the wrong athletes but he has already proven that if the athletes are right he is capable of winning a National Championship.
If it was just once I could agree that it might be a fluke. 3 times is no fluke.
The team is the problem.
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
Always need a scapegoat otherwise you would have to accept some of the responsibility yourself. I don't even know Dave but I know he has had a great deal of success in the past and I bet he does again in the future.
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
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