Has Gwen Jorgensen lost her freaking mind?

Scorpion_runner wrote:

First things first Im a Realist wrote:

Her goal is to WIN the olympic gold medal in the marathon? Win a major marathon? It took Shalane years to do this! She will struggle to even make the team.

Here's why:

1) She has trained high volume for the triathlon for a long time now. That 2:41 debut was with a lot more base than most marathon debuts.

2) Just because you win the triathlon, doesn't mean you are remotely nearly talented enough to succeed at running. Its pretty well known that the tri is significantly less competitive than running, let alone marathon running.

3) Shes tall - 5 ft 10. This helped her for the triathlon but its going to hurt a lot for marathons.

4) Shes been a runner before and was not that good. Her 10k PR may be blazing fast for the triathlon world, but its 5:25 mile pace. Jordan Hasay runs 5:23 pace for the MARATHON, not a track 10k. She may have improved a bit since then, but shes still worlds away.

I imagine this is also a terrible financial decision.

Yes, It is a very arrogant and delusional approach to running. This isn't the triathlon, so to say that in 2 years you are going to go after the gold is absolutely absurd.

First, there is this thing called the Olympic trials, where a runner who wants to run in the Olympics must qualify by gaining a top 3 qualifying spot. Now, even before that, she must run an Olympic trials qualifying standard, and she has never run that time.

Now had she said that she is going to focus on trying to qualify for the Olympics, then that would have made more sense, and would have been less pompous.

This woman does not have any track experience or PRO road running experience, but yet in still she thinks she can compete against runners who have 15 min 5000m speed and 30 min 10000m speed. The top American female marathon runner runs 2:20. Gwen is a 2:40 plus marathoner, and she thinks that she is going to be able to compete with that in 2 years? Not happening, and she is not going to beat out Hasay, Huddle, Flanigan, Linden, Cragg, or Hall for an Olympic spot.

Again, she said that she is going to focus on winning gold in the up coming Olympic marathon....and if by some glory miracle should did make it to the Olympics, she would have to face the mighty east Africans.

Would someone please slap this woman into reality and how road running is really done.

LM wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Yes, It is a very arrogant and delusional approach to running. This isn't the triathlon, so to say that in 2 years you are going to go after the gold is absolutely absurd.

First, there is this thing called the Olympic trials, where a runner who wants to run in the Olympics must qualify by gaining a top 3 qualifying spot. Now, even before that, she must run an Olympic trials qualifying standard, and she has never run that time.

Now had she said that she is going to focus on trying to qualify for the Olympics, then that would have made more sense, and would have been less pompous.

This woman does not have any track experience or PRO road running experience, but yet in still she thinks she can compete against runners who have 15 min 5000m speed and 30 min 10000m speed. The top American female marathon runner runs 2:20. Gwen is a 2:40 plus marathoner, and she thinks that she is going to be able to compete with that in 2 years? Not happening, and she is not going to beat out Hasay, Huddle, Flanigan, Linden, Cragg, or Hall for an Olympic spot.

Again, she said that she is going to focus on winning gold in the up coming Olympic marathon....and if by some glory miracle should did make it to the Olympics, she would have to face the mighty east Africans.

Would someone please slap this woman into reality and how road running is really done.

3rd at US champs beating people like Sara Hall is "no pro experience"?

Also Hasay doesn't have 30min 10000m speed or 15' 5000 speed.

David S. Pumpkins wrote:

Thanks for summarizing half of this thread for everybody...

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8525227&page=9

I'll cover the other half for you so you don't have to go read it but you can go yell into the void with everyone else instead of alone...

1) She has trained high volume for the triathlon for a long time now. That 2:41 debut was with a lot more base than most marathon debuts.

Counterpoint: She won a 3 day international triathalon competition the weekend before NYC, she had never run more than 16 miles before the race and 50something miles per week. She was 10 days past "conception" of her new son, not exactly the roughest part of pregnancy but also probably messing with your hormones by then. Not exactly tapered or having a running/pounding specific strength buildup for a goal race.

2) Just because you win the triathlon, doesn't mean you are remotely nearly talented enough to succeed at running. Its pretty well known that the tri is significantly less competitive than running, let alone marathon running.

Counterpoint: It's true, but she also dominated the crap out of that less competitive sport, so it's hard to penalize her for trying to find higher competition now. You coudn't exactly ask more of her than what she did in the tri...except beat everybody every time by even more minutes maybe?

3) Shes tall - 5 ft 10. This helped her for the triathlon but its going to hurt a lot for marathons.

One person who has met her claims 5'10" isn't accurate to her true height, Paula Radcliffe was nearly as tall and did fine as a marathoner. Guys taller than 5'10" like Galen Rupp have done fine too.

4) Shes been a runner before and was not that good. Her 10k PR may be blazing fast for the triathlon world, but its 5:25 mile pace. Jordan Hasay runs 5:23 pace for the MARATHON, not a track 10k. She may have improved a bit since then, but shes still worlds away.

You're stuck on college times. She ran a 5:12 pace 10k road race in Australia in 2014 on tri training and a 5:19 pace at the 10 mile championships in Minnesota last fall before NYC. Jordan Hasay was also in that race and ran 5:17 pace, so we're talking about a time difference of less than 1%. You don't think going back to dedicated running training could close a gap of 0.7%? Further, to give you an idea of how maybe college times may not be representative of final potential, her 5k PR from college was only 1s different than Hasay's...who apparently she can't compete with?

I imagine this is also a terrible financial decision.

She killed it on the tri circuit and made about $200,00 last year. one big marathon alone is at least half that for the win. Plus bigger sponsors and more eyes on running, plus she's probably about to sign with Nike and join bowerman track club, plus the expenses and time commitment to travel the tri circuit is incredibly draining, especially with a newborn and the competition, as you noted isn't great if you're a competitor. so while i doubt it's a terrible financial decision, even if it is sometimes people make life decisions based on things other than money, especially if you have enough money.

TL:DR, it's a bold claim, she probably won't do it, but to put in all that effort you have to aim high, and while unlikely she hasn't totally lost her mind to at least give it a try because she's talented and has an otherwordly work ethic. Let's leave this thread alone now and head back to the other one. One is enough.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

Sounds like a lot of dudes here are scared a tri person might actually not be some "mediocre" athlete and come in and start whipping some of our "pro runners" at their own game.

While I don't think marathon Gold is in her future, I do absolutely think there is a good chance she makes the team. I don't think the depth for US is all that great. I can totally see her running a 2:27 or something like that for the third spot.

The real test will be how she handles full time running. Lukas did not seem to like it and maybe Gwen won't either. Time will tell.

We have quality depth, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Jordan Hasay - 2:20 marathoner

Shalane Flanagan - 2:21 marathoner

MOlly Huddle - now this is the one to keep an eye on, because she has 15min 5000m speed and 30 min 10000m speed. She came in third in the NYC marathon last year, and she has won three straight NYC half marathons. She will go as low as 2:21 or even lower. marathon debut at 2:28.

Sarah Hall - Set a PR this year of 2:27, can probably go as low as 2:25. She ran 2:28 last year

Amy Cragg - won bronze in the marathon at the WC with a PB of 2:27. I think she can get as low as 2:25 as well. Her marathon game went

I don't see gwen cracking top 4-5, top 10 yes.

KAV wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

We have quality depth, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Jordan Hasay - 2:20 marathoner

Shalane Flanagan - 2:21 marathoner

MOlly Huddle - now this is the one to keep an eye on, because she has 15min 5000m speed and 30 min 10000m speed. She came in third in the NYC marathon last year, and she has won three straight NYC half marathons. She will go as low as 2:21 or even lower. marathon debut at 2:28.

Sarah Hall - Set a PR this year of 2:27, can probably go as low as 2:25. She ran 2:28 last year

Amy Cragg - won bronze in the marathon at the WC with a PB of 2:27. I think she can get as low as 2:25 as well. Her marathon game went

I don't see gwen cracking top 4-5, top 10 yes.

Hasay: check

Flanagan: call it quit?

Huddle: hasnt transitioned yet (will she?)

Hall: whom Jorgensen beat at the 10m

Cragg: who's on a similar level of fitness if you look at the tables.

Dossena the italian triathlete just ran a high 2'29" on a slightly slower pace on her HM pb before the race (70' and change) compared on that 10m GJ ran a year ago.

So why not?

You, like others, see GJ as a triathlete. Based on what she did on that 10m a year ago, with triathlon training only, she has a shot to be in the mix with those names (after Hasay of course), if she is able to handle the load. WIll she? Why not? Or maybe she cant because is a triathlete, whom are for many around here "second class" athletes.... Kid you not...

Scorpion_runner wrote:

KAV wrote:

Hasay: check

Flanagan: call it quit?

Huddle: hasnt transitioned yet (will she?)

Hall: whom Jorgensen beat at the 10m

Cragg: who's on a similar level of fitness if you look at the tables.

Dossena the italian triathlete just ran a high 2'29" on a slightly slower pace on her HM pb before the race (70' and change) compared on that 10m GJ ran a year ago.

So why not?

You, like others, see GJ as a triathlete. Based on what she did on that 10m a year ago, with triathlon training only, she has a shot to be in the mix with those names (after Hasay of course), if she is able to handle the load. WIll she? Why not? Or maybe she cant because is a triathlete, whom are for many around here "second class" athletes.... Kid you not...

Like the previous poster stated, she is trying to beat the same women that beat her in HS and College, which is why she moved to the triathlon. Now she is 30, and those women are way more advanced than her at the marathon.

All those times that you talked about, she has not run. So she is a 2:40 + marathoner. There is no hypothesis is running. Either you have run that time or you have not.

She ran one marathon, and now her attention is on winning Gold in Tokyo? Training does not work like that. We talk about how to train on this forum all the time, and how long it takes to get faster as a runner. That same science applies to the elites. It took them years on top of years to get faster, running 5000m, 10000m, half marathons and marathoners. So gwen is going to do it in 2 years?

It's simple science. Now had she said in 4 years, that would have been more logical. But to try to go after gold against elite Africans and elite americans in 2 years, with no elite marathon experience or elite marathon training, is laughable, arrogant, and delusional. So it is hard to take her seriously. It's like me stating that I'm going to be a 17min 5k guy next year, when I'm a 20 min guy on the cusp of going sub 20mins. Hitting 19 is the first focus, then 18, not some unrealistic jump to being 3 mins faster in less than 2 years.

That is why runners on this board are going in on her. We hope she does well, and not afraid of what she can do. But her approach is disrespectful to running, and athletes who run it.