What is wrong with American male marathoners? Or, how long will 2:12 be impressive?

The main reason is the biomechanics of the US athletes are like 100m Athletes. They keep forcing their strides and contracting so many muscles for no reason, while the Kenyans and Ethipians use the gravity to help them move forward.

It's not dead on and it is embarrassing that you guys believe this. Elites aren't training to run x pace in a race, they're training to be able to cover the distance as fast as they're able.

This is so true. I could build a better social media presence and have more interest from people by promoting all the color, obstacle, zombie, and charity runs that I do rather than winning every other road race in the local area. Nobody cares if you run fast, it just makes you weird, skinny, and too intense. It’s all about what you appear to do rather than what you do.

The km v mile splits is interesting. I also have to agree with American runners choosing to do NYC & Boston every year. In a recent interview, Shalane said she is at peace with her PR but wants a major marathon win which is why she chose NY this year and why she will go back to Boston in the spring. We've built up these races so much that the 2:11-2:15 guys & the high-2:20s/low-2:30s women will also run these races to try to finish in the top-10. I think we would have also seen some faster times by now if the 2016 trials were held somewhere else with better weather. The 2012 trials seemed to be a step forward and in 2016 we went to tighter standards because that'll make the times better- good weather will make the times better. Who cares if the standard was 2:19 or even 2:22 if the weather was good? Only 14 broke 2:18 at the 2016 Trials, while 41 broke 2:18 in 2012. And I love races like Twin Cities, which has hosted to US Marathon Champs in recent years, but it'll be interesting to see if CIM produces some faster times in December.

I agree. Look back at the 1980s and how many U.S. runners where under 2:12 (

http://www.usatf.org/statistics/All-Time-Lists/MarathonMen.aspx

). What is different now?

I think people are just less willing to put in the miles. Too many distractions. And the soccer diversion seems possible.

NobodysClean wrote:

The main reason is the biomechanics of the US athletes are like 100m Athletes. They keep forcing their strides and contracting so many muscles for no reason, while the Kenyans and Ethipians use the gravity to help them move forward.

Damn that racist Gravity, always favouring the Africans.

2:12:35 debut for Fauble was quite strong. The problem is that we haven't had anyone in decades break 2:10 other than the very short list of Abdi, Meb, Ritz, Hall, Rupp, and Khannouchi, and only two of those guys are at that level currently and only three of them were truly homegrown. We have plenty of talent to run 2:07-2:08 like the Japanese if you think about the number of 60-62 half marathoners in this country, but they obviously aren't doing the right training.

Another possible reason is the college system. A lot of focus on the 1500 - which is why we are so deep in it- so not as much opportunity to develop or even to discover if the longer distance more suited to the athlete.

What if we added the half-marathon to the NCAAs? We would then start the development of the marathoner earlier, while having the school's support system. (Lots of logistics involved of course, but for discussion purposes, it would kick start the process).

why doesn't Ritz's 2:07:4x show up in that list? i see other chicago marathon times in there... did the course change and become non-eligible?

no YOURE hilarious wrote:

WhereAreThey wrote:

Over 150 Japanese men have done it.

Some sheep farmer from Wales just ran 2:09. Well done to him but why can these super elite, super funded like BTC produce better marathoners? What is 2:12?

We crush the Japanese at 1500, 5000 and 10000m. That sheep farmer can't even dream about running what Derrick ran for 10000m or 5000m.

Yes, and that´s exactly why it´s incomprehensible why American marathoners don´t run faster. Any sub-28 10k runner should be able to run sub-2,10 in his sleep.

I find it amusing that so many get pissed when people bring this subject up, because it´s a perfectly legit question. American marathoners underperform in the marathon compared to shorter distances.

LI--Runner wrote:

Another possible reason is the college system. A lot of focus on the 1500

This is probably the right answer. When American runners leave college they have basically been doing middle distance training for 8-10 years.

Shalane will not win a major marathon, she had her shot and it didn't happen. She goes to NYC and Boston ( Boston does multi year deals ) for the appearance money. She will finish high enough to get good prize money as well.

PR value very high as she will be touted as the top American unless Jordan runs races this spring.

The tighter standards are a joke in athlete development. Why not open up the fields and give some incentive for athletes on the edge to continue training. There is no logical reason except the elitism coming from the LDR chair.

We coach to 2:12 mediocrity and athletes have accepted to race to be the top american.

FightFor15 wrote:

Shalane said she is at peace with her PR but wants a major marathon win which is why she chose NY this year and why she will go back to Boston in the spring.

I don't think the easiest way to win a major marathon is to compete against Mary Keitany.

Ugot?I got answers wrote:

The truth is that most talented American distance runners go to soccer, which is why the US is the best. Thread over

This is not it.

I'm a old guy. I ran in the late 70's - early 80's. USA had lots of 2:10-2:12 guys then. More than today, but we still did not have too many sub 2:10 guys.

Here's a difference, though. Those 2:10-2:12 guys were 28:XX guys, or, at best, 27:45. How did we get so much faster at 5/10k, and not any better at all at the marathon? And those are pro's these day. The 70's/80's were amateurs - maybe a little under the table money, but not enough to make a living.

I think it's training. We are better, smarter at 5/10k training, but have scraficed marathon training.

How does the Black Cactus always get overlooked? Abdi has been the 2nd best American marathoner for awhile now. 3rd NYC last year, 6th in Boston this April - watch him podium again this weekend in New York.....

well,. wrote:

no YOURE hilarious wrote:

We crush the Japanese at 1500, 5000 and 10000m. That sheep farmer can't even dream about running what Derrick ran for 10000m or 5000m.

Yes, and that´s exactly why it´s incomprehensible why American marathoners don´t run faster. Any sub-28 10k runner should be able to run sub-2,10 in his sleep.

I find it amusing that so many get pissed when people bring this subject up, because it´s a perfectly legit question. American marathoners underperform in the marathon compared to shorter distances.

The exception here is Jared Ward. Technically his PR is 2:11, but that is under horrendous conditions in Rio for 6th the Olympics, beating Callum Hawkins among many other fast guys. His 10000 PR is only 28:36. He trains smart and races even smarter.

if these guys were able to sauce they would run 2:08-09 in the marathon. not great but such is life

no YOURE hilarious wrote:

We crush the Japanese at 1500, 5000 and 10000m. That sheep farmer can't even dream about running what Derrick ran for 10000m or 5000m.

Isn't that kind of the point of the question? Americans are good at every other distance in running... why not the marathon?

gawd your dumb wrote:

WhereAreThey wrote:

They do not exist. American marathoners exist.

Tens of millions of Americans have every opportunity to run.

About 10 Kenyans could access proper training for swimming.

Next stupid answer?

10 Kenyans? Really? A country with a huge, attractive seaside and beautiful lakes? I like how you mention "proper training." Eluding to training in pools. How do f do you think people learned to swim incredibly well before swimming pools?

If you're going to go that route, then there would about 1 American with "proper training" for running right now.