What is wrong with American male marathoners? Or, how long will 2:12 be impressive?

Five is the magic number wrote:

3 and 5 are the magic numbers here.

5 seems to be the magic number to Americans.

Americans are all training to hold 5 minute miles for as long as possible.

5 minutes per mile equates to 2:11.

Hence they all end up in the 2:10-2:12 range.

(Depending on either surging or fading in the last miles).

Most of the rest of the world is training to do 3 minutes per kilometer.

3 minutes per kilometer equates to 2:07.

And 3 minutes per kilometer prefigures results in the 2:06-2:08....

This is dead on. Been saying that Americans need to ditch the training and racing by pace and effin run to race all out like Steve Jones did. The international sub 2:10 guys are pushing at a higher level cause of training and racing by kilometer splits, not because they are any better. They train to push harder. Steve put no such barriers on himself.

We are behind at every level when it comes to elite marathoning. When US runners hit 21 years old there development is just too far behind. This can be off set by a immersion in a world class running environment, Kenya or Ethiopia, but at the present time Americans are just not interested in that type of commitment. It has nothing to do with performance enhancing drugs.

With the 10th anniversary of the 2008 Olympic Trials Marathon (which took place on 11/3/07) coming up, I was wondering whether any American (except Rupp) that has run his Marathon DEBUT since this race (i.e., the last ten years) broken 2:10?

I apologize if I there was someone besides Rupp.

Rupp's debut was 2:11.

Ugot?I got answers wrote:

The truth is that most talented American distance runners go to soccer, which is why the US is the best. Thread over

Wait!!! LOL

Kawauchi, full-time government clerk > Rupp, full time athlete

As crazy as it may seem, you maybe onto something here.

The relevant question is why do Americans boycott Berlin, London, Dubai,Amsterdam and other fast marathons (or vice versa)? At least NAZ Elite were willing to fly to Germany for a reasonably fast race.

YMMV wrote:

The relevant question is why do Americans boycott Berlin, London, Dubai,Amsterdam and other fast marathons (or vice versa)? At least NAZ Elite were willing to fly to Germany for a reasonably fast race.

Because American marathoners make a lot more money by running American marathons.

NoOneCares wrote:

It's pretty simple really. It's not a popular competitive sport in high school and college. To quote Kenny Powers "I play real sports. I'm not trying to be the best at exercising."

There's no fame, money, or support. If Soccer was as big as football, baseball, and basketball, don't you think we would be producing some of the world's best? Same goes for marathon running.

Also, people in the sport already have to listen to you douchebags on here b**ch about everything. It's a bunch of f***ing dorks on here talking about running. Where's the appeal for kids at a younger age? I mean, come on, I have to edit my swear words. What a joke.

Running is a joke, quite literally. Want to impress your friends on Facebook? Walk a 5 hour marathon. Your friends will credit you with a superhuman feat of endurance and ask you "That's gotta be like a world record, right?" Run 2:30 and you are known as the "jogging guy who doesn't do anything but jog all the time" (which could possibly be the case). Road races have been replaced by charity runs, zombie runs, color runs, obstacle runs and other 'novelty' events. You want to be a race winner these days? No need to run a 15:00 5k. Finish the 5k in 30 minutes, drape your medal around your neck, take a hundred selfies for FB, then wear your medal to work the next day so people can congratulate you and Sarah in accounting gets you a surprise congratulatory cake. Running is a joke. In the 80's I got my ass jacked as a sub 15 5k guy. I ran anywhere from 60 to 100+ mpw, and didn't have a medal to wear to work because I didn't get one. Breaking 25 for 5 miles didn't get you an award at many races. These days you can run a 5k in the same time and place in your age group. The disparity between elites and the masses has become staggering. You have your elites running 2:05 ish, then the masses starting around 2:40. 2:12? Well you can run with the lead woman and then hope to pull away after 20. You might be better off just power walking the 'event'. At least you'll get a medal.

Wanjiru (original) 1.63m

Gebrselassie 1.63m

Kipchoge 1.67m

Bekele 1.67m

Kimetto 1.71m

Lelisa 1.75m

Farah 1.75m

Hall 1.78m

Shorter 1.78m

Rupp 1.8m

See a trend?

Speaker of Hard Truths wrote:

Rupp's debut was 2:11.

The point I was trying to make was that no American (except Rupp) has arrived on the scene in the last 10 years (i.e. run a Marathon debut in the last 10 years) and gone on to break 2:10. Of the other American runners that have run under 2:10 in the last 10 years (Meb, Abdi, Hall, and Ritzenhein) all made their marathon debuts in the Spring of 2007 (Hall) or earlier.

Off the top of my head, I think Hall (London 2017) and Salazar (New York 1980) are the only two Americans ever to go under 2:10 in their debut -- and the course Salazar ran on was short using modern measuring standards. It will be disappointing if Leonard Korir does not debut under 2:10 -- unless it is a tactical race.

Spot on wrote:

The fact of the matter is that 2:12 just isn’t that impressive, and our male marathoners are weak compared to their female marathoning counterparts and when compared to American men at any track distance.

Are they really that much weaker than American females? Yes Cragg won a World bronze but her time to win that was a PR for her at 2:27. And other than Hasay it seems like most US women are in that 2:27 range which I don't know for sure but isn't that about equivalent to the 2:12 for guys. And maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember any American women being in contention for medals in the 5k or 10k at Worlds this year or the Olympics last year.

For the USA to improve in marathoning, many of the best college runners would need to commit to the event right after college and forget about the track entirely. They would need to emulate the Kenyan style of simple, remote training camps (but make sure to have something else to do so your mind can focus on something else besides running). I don’t think it’s wise to do that earlier because it’s nice to have that college athletic scholarship to help pay for your education and have that available rather than be some 20 year old dropping everything and training full time without a backup plan.

The problem is support and career prospects. If you don’t have a full-time pro contract with a good training group, you are better off going straight into an entry level job and career, because it’s a better practical life option than working part time at a running store running 2:10-2:15 marathons. If you’re from East Africa, running full time isn’t a bad option, because it could be a path to a lifetime of riches. Here, dropping everything to run full time while working some piddly part-time job is borderline stupid, from a career and financial perspective (and maybe social market value perspective).

There’s very little incentive for many of America’s best young runners to train seriously for marathons. So they don’t, because what’s the point. We’re here getting excited about a 31 year old running a 2:12 (which is great, btw) while a sheep farmer from Wales just ran a debut that would make him the 2nd best USA marathoner right now and even last year a master’s runner was the 2nd best marathoner in the country (Meb).

WhereAreThey wrote:

Bamn wrote:

Whats wrong with Kenyan swimmers?

They do not exist. American marathoners exist.

Tens of millions of Americans have every opportunity to run.

About 10 Kenyans could access proper training for swimming.

Next stupid answer?

Slithe Stallone wrote:

Truf be told wrote:

Yego? Not quite numbnutz. The Javelin caters to a more slithe body type. Not necessarily true power or true power coupled with explosiveness. Much more wrist action/technique involved. Check out Thomas Rohler's physique. Yeah, the Thomas Rohler who's thrown farther than Yego.

Did you know Yego is a 5' 8" mid get?

Now if Yego medaled in the Shot put, discus, or hammer, that would be a different story.

Stop it. He's close to 190 at that height. He's not lithe at all.

Lithe Yego lolololol

The 5:00 vs 3:00 makes sense.

The logging doesn’t.

wrong genetics wrote:

Wanjiru (original) 1.63m

Gebrselassie 1.63m

Kipchoge 1.67m

Bekele 1.67m

Kimetto 1.71m

Lelisa 1.75m

Farah 1.75m

Hall 1.78m

Shorter 1.78m

Rupp 1.8m

See a trend?

Thank you for sharing this insightful data. In fact, I DO see a trend -- these guys keep getting taller and taller. Where will it end? Where, I ask? ? Where??? Stop the tallness!! Stop the madness!!

wrong genetics wrote:

Wanjiru (original) 1.63m

Gebrselassie 1.63m

Kipchoge 1.67m

Bekele 1.67m

Kimetto 1.71m

Lelisa 1.75m

Farah 1.75m

Hall 1.78m

Shorter 1.78m

Rupp 1.8m

See a trend?

Kipsang seems to be doing alright at 1.82m.