I have been there wrote:
Thankfully it does not have artificially propagated golf course type grass, which is not natural in CO and wastes water .
Give me a break. All season, my kid runs at beautiful city parks, golf courses, and HS and college campuses, all of which have at least 1 blade of grass. At State, his team camp is in a dirt pile, he dare not fall into a pile of horse s*** at the finish, and he's sneezing for days because of his allergies to animals.
As a CO runner (whose been injured while running on this course), I do have to say that I really like the course because it's challenging but not crazy hard. The lack of officials is my main problem, as I watched the 8th place finisher in a race grab water from a spectator (not a coach), which is illegal in our rules, and not get disqualified.
COXCFan wrote:
As a CO runner (whose been injured while running on this course), I do have to say that I really like the course because it's challenging but not crazy hard. The lack of officials is my main problem, as I watched the 8th place finisher in a race grab water from a spectator (not a coach), which is illegal in our rules, and not get disqualified.
My (the OP) username twin brings up another good point. Just another CHSAA fail :(
COXCFan wrote:
COXCFan wrote:
As a CO runner (whose been injured while running on this course), I do have to say that I really like the course because it's challenging but not crazy hard. The lack of officials is my main problem, as I watched the 8th place finisher in a race grab water from a spectator (not a coach), which is illegal in our rules, and not get disqualified.
My (the OP) username twin brings up another good point. Just another CHSAA fail :(
CHSAA is run by dinosaurs without a clue or care about xc.
They are really good at ensuring asinine uniform rules, though, so they've got that going for them.
I'm glad to see this discussion. As a coach here in CO, I have some thoughts, and a plan:
THOUGHTS:
1) The recent efforts to improve NPEC are good, but it leaves much to be desired. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
2) I'm optimistic that a better venue/course, or a few of them, exist. Somewhere in our great State!
3) I don't think people know how to submit a bid. I just checked chsaanow and chsaa.org, and there is no information. Additionally, coaches who care are too busy teaching and coaching kids to submit a bid, let alone organize hundreds of volunteers and put on the State Meet. This, to me, is the biggest barrier to change.
PLAN:
1) I will be attending the upcoming CHSAA meeting (Nov 13th, 9am, CHSAA Office) to propose a new administrative process for gathering venue/course proposals, filtering them based on preset criteria (which CHSAA can define), voting on them as a Statewide community, and administering the State XC Meet in a democratic, collaborative, and sustainable way.
If you are a CO HS AD, XC coach, parent, or community member passionate about the sport of running, please consider coming to this meeting. I'd love your support!
Fly to Indiana and take some notes.
Supertramp wrote:
O I H O wrote:
Supertramp, where would you move it to in Ohio? Agree that spectating at the drag strip is near impossible---AFAIK, the reasons it's held at the drag strip are: 1. enough parking 2. it's fenced off so the state can charge spectators to get in 3. room to make a 3.1 course (regardless of whether it's any good or not). I'd be interested in others' opinions of why it ended up there after the horse track course was put to an end AND where in Ohio would you move it to now?
It's been a long time since I have ran CC in Ohio, so not a lot of Columbus area courses come to mind. I remember having a 3rd party conversation about somebody in the Columbus area wanting to showcase a course that sounded like it had real potential, but I don't remember any details.
Cedarville, Mason, Boardman and Tiffin put on great meets, but none are very central, although Cedarville's not bad. I've personally always been a fan of the venue at Troy where they host the regional (and I've always thought Troy was too far north for that region, venue should be south of Dayton) but I know that's a minority opinion. The Midwest Meet of Champions is a very large meet on a fast course and in the Columbus area (at Hilliard I believe?) that might be able to host it.
Somebody already mentioned it, but taking it back to Scioto Down would be great. It has its flaws for sure but most everyone seemed to be a big fan of that venue. However, something about them introducing slot machines led to the OHSAA not being able to host the meet there? At least that was the rumor I heard. I'd hope they'd be willing to work around that somehow,
I agree that the drag strip makes sense on paper; its ability to facilitate all the people is a big advantage. However, I believe there has to be other venues in the area that can do the same thing and provide a course that is more spectator and competition friendly.
(apologies to all the people the Colorado people for hijacking your thread)
Ohio courses are changing soon. Troy regional is being moved. Cedarville will wither continue as a district or a regional. State meet course is moving to springfield
Bob Schul Country wrote:
Supertramp wrote:
It's been a long time since I have ran CC in Ohio, so not a lot of Columbus area courses come to mind. I remember having a 3rd party conversation about somebody in the Columbus area wanting to showcase a course that sounded like it had real potential, but I don't remember any details.
Cedarville, Mason, Boardman and Tiffin put on great meets, but none are very central, although Cedarville's not bad. I've personally always been a fan of the venue at Troy where they host the regional (and I've always thought Troy was too far north for that region, venue should be south of Dayton) but I know that's a minority opinion. The Midwest Meet of Champions is a very large meet on a fast course and in the Columbus area (at Hilliard I believe?) that might be able to host it.
Somebody already mentioned it, but taking it back to Scioto Down would be great. It has its flaws for sure but most everyone seemed to be a big fan of that venue. However, something about them introducing slot machines led to the OHSAA not being able to host the meet there? At least that was the rumor I heard. I'd hope they'd be willing to work around that somehow,
I agree that the drag strip makes sense on paper; its ability to facilitate all the people is a big advantage. However, I believe there has to be other venues in the area that can do the same thing and provide a course that is more spectator and competition friendly.
(apologies to all the people the Colorado people for hijacking your thread)
Ohio courses are changing soon. Troy regional is being moved. Cedarville will wither continue as a district or a regional. State meet course is moving to springfield
That is great news. Cedarville would make a great district/regional (I hope both). You have any maps or anything of the Springfield course?
Don't forget the most important requirement for CHSAA: Controlled spectator entrance so they can charge their exorbitant fees.
concernedCOHScoach wrote:
I'm glad to see this discussion. As a coach here in CO, I have some thoughts, and a plan:
THOUGHTS:
1) The recent efforts to improve NPEC are good, but it leaves much to be desired. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
2) I'm optimistic that a better venue/course, or a few of them, exist. Somewhere in our great State!
3) I don't think people know how to submit a bid. I just checked chsaanow and chsaa.org, and there is no information. Additionally, coaches who care are too busy teaching and coaching kids to submit a bid, let alone organize hundreds of volunteers and put on the State Meet. This, to me, is the biggest barrier to change.
PLAN:
1) I will be attending the upcoming CHSAA meeting (Nov 13th, 9am, CHSAA Office) to propose a new administrative process for gathering venue/course proposals, filtering them based on preset criteria (which CHSAA can define), voting on them as a Statewide community, and administering the State XC Meet in a democratic, collaborative, and sustainable way.
If you are a CO HS AD, XC coach, parent, or community member passionate about the sport of running, please consider coming to this meeting. I'd love your support!
bcp wrote:
-Ghetto location.Could they find a worse armpit of the city ?
This is just beyond a stupid comment. Its the number one school district. Home to the longest rated 5 star 5 diamond hotel.
The Broadmoor Skyway area is probably the most desirable in the CIty. Judy Bell Pres of US Golf wanted to take part of th course and make it into a golf course to go with the other Broadmoor golf courses that have hosted multiple US opens.
Someone said the parking was inadequate. Good enough for the President to use and he has the biggest crowds EVER.
Wow.
I had know idea Norris Penrose shared a 5 star hotel nearby.
Funny, when our team was walking down Lower Gold Camp road in search of those elusive Gatorade vendors, all we found was 23 tons of trash, homeless shanties, 4000 empty wine bottles, and an angry local yelling at us. Anyways, is the Broadmoor left or right from the Hobby Lobby? Should our athlete's go to the 10 used car dealerships for directions or is the Broadmoor entrance right next the "never existed in Colorado Springs" Adopt a Highway sign?
POTUS's biggest croud EVER??
Yeah, this dump could handle that crowd!
I have been 3x and never charged a fee. (I think there was a parking fee but then I know the places to park and walk in).
CO Coach wrote:
Don't forget the most important requirement for CHSAA: Controlled spectator entrance so they can charge their exorbitant fees.
concernedCOHScoach wrote:
I'm glad to see this discussion. As a coach here in CO, I have some thoughts, and a plan:
THOUGHTS:
1) The recent efforts to improve NPEC are good, but it leaves much to be desired. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
2) I'm optimistic that a better venue/course, or a few of them, exist. Somewhere in our great State!
3) I don't think people know how to submit a bid. I just checked chsaanow and chsaa.org, and there is no information. Additionally, coaches who care are too busy teaching and coaching kids to submit a bid, let alone organize hundreds of volunteers and put on the State Meet. This, to me, is the biggest barrier to change.
PLAN:
1) I will be attending the upcoming CHSAA meeting (Nov 13th, 9am, CHSAA Office) to propose a new administrative process for gathering venue/course proposals, filtering them based on preset criteria (which CHSAA can define), voting on them as a Statewide community, and administering the State XC Meet in a democratic, collaborative, and sustainable way.
If you are a CO HS AD, XC coach, parent, or community member passionate about the sport of running, please consider coming to this meeting. I'd love your support!
It's not just xc they don't care about. The state track venue is quickly becoming a disaster every year as well: Not enough parking, no [real] place for athletes to warmup, not enough room for all the team camps anymore, discus vector not long enough to accommodate national caliber throwers, the spectating situation for the throws, high jump and pole vault makes it impossible to navigate around the track anymore, in fact the spectating situation at the pole vault just sucks in general. The population of Colorado is expected to double (again) in the next 30 years, how is CHSAA going to handle twice as many high schools and kids? They are still running things like it's 1970. They need to start planning and investing now in national class venues for hosting state championships (across multiple sports), track and xc in particular. Unfortunately Colorado can't rely on any of the local universities to provide a nice facility to host a state championships at as they don't have the facilities either.
Jurassic Park wrote:
COXCFan wrote:
My (the OP) username twin brings up another good point. Just another CHSAA fail :(
CHSAA is run by dinosaurs without a clue or care about xc.
They are really good at ensuring asinine uniform rules, though, so they've got that going for them.
concernedCOHScoach wrote:
I'm glad to see this discussion. As a coach here in CO, I have some thoughts, and a plan:
THOUGHTS:
1) The recent efforts to improve NPEC are good, but it leaves much to be desired. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
2) I'm optimistic that a better venue/course, or a few of them, exist. Somewhere in our great State!
3) I don't think people know how to submit a bid. I just checked chsaanow and chsaa.org, and there is no information. Additionally, coaches who care are too busy teaching and coaching kids to submit a bid, let alone organize hundreds of volunteers and put on the State Meet. This, to me, is the biggest barrier to change.
PLAN:
1) I will be attending the upcoming CHSAA meeting (Nov 13th, 9am, CHSAA Office) to propose a new administrative process for gathering venue/course proposals, filtering them based on preset criteria (which CHSAA can define), voting on them as a Statewide community, and administering the State XC Meet in a democratic, collaborative, and sustainable way.
If you are a CO HS AD, XC coach, parent, or community member passionate about the sport of running, please consider coming to this meeting. I'd love your support!
THANK YOU SIR!!!
I hope you find leeway within the CHSAA monolith!
It's time to move on from Penrose.
I hope you have reinforcement with you or can get through to them!!
We'll spread word about the 9th!
YES!! wrote:
concernedCOHScoach wrote:
I'm glad to see this discussion. As a coach here in CO, I have some thoughts, and a plan:
THOUGHTS:
1) The recent efforts to improve NPEC are good, but it leaves much to be desired. We are putting lipstick on a pig.
2) I'm optimistic that a better venue/course, or a few of them, exist. Somewhere in our great State!
3) I don't think people know how to submit a bid. I just checked chsaanow and chsaa.org, and there is no information. Additionally, coaches who care are too busy teaching and coaching kids to submit a bid, let alone organize hundreds of volunteers and put on the State Meet. This, to me, is the biggest barrier to change.
PLAN:
1) I will be attending the upcoming CHSAA meeting (Nov 13th, 9am, CHSAA Office) to propose a new administrative process for gathering venue/course proposals, filtering them based on preset criteria (which CHSAA can define), voting on them as a Statewide community, and administering the State XC Meet in a democratic, collaborative, and sustainable way.
If you are a CO HS AD, XC coach, parent, or community member passionate about the sport of running, please consider coming to this meeting. I'd love your support!
THANK YOU SIR!!!
I hope you find leeway within the CHSAA monolith!
It's time to move on from Penrose.
I hope you have reinforcement with you or can get through to them!!
We'll spread word about the 9th!
Nov. 13th! Not 9th.
It's been a while since I've been to state xc (I only coach track now), I know that's a big requirement for the state track meet is that the venue is enclosed to facilitate them charging fees. Apparently the state track meet is one of CHSAA's biggest money makers. God help you if you ever have a kid in sport that has a playoff, I dropped over $100 one year just so my wife and I could watch one of our kids go all the way to the state basketball finals. Your choice is to pay the fees or you don't get to see your kid play. High school sports took a wrong turn somewhere, but I'm not sure when or where...
Luv2Run wrote:
I have been 3x and never charged a fee. (I think there was a parking fee but then I know the places to park and walk in).
CO Coach wrote:
Don't forget the most important requirement for CHSAA: Controlled spectator entrance so they can charge their exorbitant fees.
What they should do is build a giant park on some of the cheap land out by the airport with a cross country course / public golf or Frisbee golf course incorporated into the design. Put a bunch of higher end homes and some schools around it and a light rail stop nearby.
Yeah, those homeless camps are a real issue everywhere there is open space in Colorado now that weed is legal. I have a friend who works for the forest service and they are busting up homeless camps constantly (and El Paso county is probably the worst place for it). They are constantly having to shut campgrounds down because they are getting so overrun with trash. It is sad, because a lot of places where people used to take their families and camp out have now turned into homeless enclaves. It is pretty wild how close that area is to Cheyenne Mountain / the Broadmoor and all of the million dollar homes.
comedyrelief wrote:
What they should do is build a giant park on some of the cheap land out by the airport with a cross country course / public golf or Frisbee golf course incorporated into the design. Put a bunch of higher end homes and some schools around it and a light rail stop nearby.
Were you kidding? Or no?
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/14/aurora-aerotropolis-mixed-use-community/Not kidding. Just seems like an area that is ripe for development. Was not aware of the community they were planning. Just have stayed out by the airport a number of times and see the development potential as there is a decent amount of water, newer infrastructure and if you can incorporate a light rail stop, you have easy access to downtown and the tech center.
I like the course and venue. You can fairly easily see the athletes run 3-4 times, the course is moderately difficult, and it is pretty convenient. Parking can be an issue if you don't know the ins and outs. Starting the race a little quicker is necessary for bottlenecking, but there is a wide start to help with that. None of my athletes have complained about the course, and there is a large area for spectators to see the finish. Bear Creek is in a nice part of town and is a very pretty park.
Suggestion for improving: Having another bridge to cross that is easily accessible would be helpful for fans and coaches who want to view runners at mile one and mile two.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.