Colorado HS XC needs a new State course

Wisconsin's course is held at a golf course as well... it's also nowhere near the state capital itself, more of a centralized location so the further areas are (roughly) equal distance from the course.

http://www.mstc.edu/news/11-16-2016-live-gps-maps-wiaa-state-cross-country-meet-made-possible-mid-state-students

That link will show a pretty detailed map of Wisconsin's state course. It's nice, with just one real hill coming around mile 2 I believe. Beautiful course.

State Champ from the 80s wrote:

DeKoevand Park, where Arapahoe has held their invitational for the last 50 plus years, is also a great course--spectator friendly. It's got grassy areas, water obstacles, the highline canal trail, and some short steep dirt climbs up to the canal path. It was my favorite course in the state.

Never been there. Why isn't State there?

COXCFan wrote:

Thanks. How often do they rotate? Sounds like a logical system. Guessing Van Cortlandt Park is one of them?

In the New York public school association (NYSPHSAA), there are 11 sections, and every year a different section by number order picks a course that will host the state championship. The schools within the host section vote on what course they want. In almost every case this course is within the section, and almost always it’s the best racing course, but I think in rare cases the host section has picked a location outside. For example, sometimes Section 8 (Nassau County, on Long Island) will pick Sunken Meadow State Park in Section 11 (Suffolk County, next county east) instead of their own Bethpage State Park because Sunken Meadow is a better course to host a championship meet on. I actually don’t think Van Cortlandt Park has ever hosted the public school championship, as the five boroughs don’t belong to NYSPHSAA but to the PSAL, which is the city association. There are 4 associations in New York, the public schools (NYSPHSAA), the city schools (PSAL), the Catholic schools (CHSAA), and independent/private schools (NYSAIS). These 4 associations join and race at one final race the week after the public school state championship, called the Federation Meet. This meet, unlike the public school state championship, is always held at Bowdoin Park in Wappinger Falls.

New York is kinda weird because even though the Federation Meet is the clearest way to decide who is the single best team in the state and allows schools from notoriously tough sections or associations to get in on at-large bids (only one school per size classification goes to the state championship in each section for public schools), many schools decide to actually not compete in it. This is because the Federation Meet is the week before the Footlocker Northeast and Nike Cross Regional races, and if you’re the best in New York usually you’re one of the best in the country so Nationals is the bigger goal. And if you’re a public school, they call winning their classification a state championship, which is true even though in reality that’s a pretty small pool. For those two reasons, the Fed Meet gets overlooked a lot.

I think the 3 other associations do host their championships at Van Cortlandt Park, though. So it’s just the public schools that rotate location. The 3 other association have much fewer members and are all mostly in the same area so it’s not important to them.

Wow, NY has their s*** together. It's no wonder they are such an XC powerhouse year-in , year-out. I'm envious of your State's HS XC governing body's organization. Their system seems to be working. Thanks for the insight.

Hold it on CU's buffalo ranch course...

the beast of the east wrote:

COXCFan wrote:

Right now, its held at some horse stables. The course is narrow and dangerous, not spectator friendly, and hurts kids.

Curious: how did your State's XC course get decided? Would love some perspective here, as our State's governing body probably couldn't tell you how many runners score, let alone host a meet.

PA is just a bunch of hills one after the other. Notoriously hard course, not a place to put down times, but good for testing the best of the best.

All the runners hate the pa course for how unpredictable it is, and it's awful in bad conditions.

Virginia has a mediocre course that would be okay except for the simple fact that they don't allow spectators on the course. they actually encourage you to bring binoculars in the milesplit meet info because everyone is allowed to just stand up on a hill next to a fence where you see them go past at the start, the finish and if you really squint a few other places.

nothing like running by yourself with no one cheering for you at a state championship!

COXCFan wrote:

Wow, NY has their s*** together. It's no wonder they are such an XC powerhouse year-in , year-out. I'm envious of your State's HS XC governing body's organization. Their system seems to be working. Thanks for the insight.

Yes, I think it is a good system. Biggest drawback is that sometimes it creates a far drive for teams/fans/parents. Sunken Meadow on Long Island is a schlep for teams from Western/Northern NY. Though I think the travelling makes it more exciting for the kids. The state meets were always the highlight of the season.

Hilarious that multiple people are already talking about how awful the Ohio course is. I agree with all the listed grievances. Almost nobody likes racing there and almost nobody likes watching there.

Good news is that I heard this may be the last or the 2nd to last year there. Something about somebody else buying the drag strip and that contract being up. There are some really great meets in Ohio, really hope they find a better venue.

CO should look to Illinois for a good example. The state organization (IHSA) runs the meet (since 1946), in a geographically central location (Peoria), and has held it on the same course since 1970. Generations of runners can compare times and swap tales of running on the Detweiller Park course. This year's runners will have run the same course as Chris Derrick (2007) and Lukas Verzbicas (2010), Tom Graves ('77), and course record-holder Craig Virgin ('71).

Inadequate parking, restrooms, etc. for a crowd the size of state. Kent is a better location on the highline as it actually has the facilities to support that size of a crowd.

COXCFan wrote:

Wow, NY has their s*** together. It's no wonder they are such an XC powerhouse year-in , year-out. I'm envious of your State's HS XC governing body's organization. Their system seems to be working. Thanks for the insight.

Pretty sure that Colorado produces more quality runners each year per capita than New York. One meet doesn't determine the fate of a state's cross country fate.

A kid can get hurt on any course.

I believe that schools bid to host the meet. From there I am not sure about the selection process. Aren't HS XC coaches involved in the selection process?

The truth is very few are willing to put in the time or have the credentials to host the Colorado meet. From the start area you can see about 8-10 minutes of the race and still catch the finish. And politely, if this course is too dangerous (I mean it's hard packed dirt) then your child might be in the wrong sport. The only legit point of contention I've heard is elevation. At 6,200 ft. it's nearly 2000 ft. higher than the plains portion of the state (1000 ft higher than Denver) and might favor the mountain towns. It would be silly though to move it to Burlington, CO to solve for that one inequity.

When it comes to state courses it's all about Woodward park. Besides running on the street for part of it, that course is perfect.

Supertramp, where would you move it to in Ohio? Agree that spectating at the drag strip is near impossible---AFAIK, the reasons it's held at the drag strip are: 1. enough parking 2. it's fenced off so the state can charge spectators to get in 3. room to make a 3.1 course (regardless of whether it's any good or not). I'd be interested in others' opinions of why it ended up there after the horse track course was put to an end AND where in Ohio would you move it to now?

not flagpole wrote:

Ohio has there meet on an abomination of a course. Ran down NHRA drag strip, where everything is roped of and a mile of going back and forth on itself.

I have been to 10+ state cross country meets across the country in my time, and the old course at Scioto Downs was hands-down the best state course in the country. It was a somewhat challenging course, but quite fair. Plus, there's nothing quite like that deafening roar of 10,000 screaming fans as the runners re-enter the stadium.

COXCFan wrote:

State Champ from the 80s wrote:

DeKoevand Park, where Arapahoe has held their invitational for the last 50 plus years, is also a great course--spectator friendly. It's got grassy areas, water obstacles, the highline canal trail, and some short steep dirt climbs up to the canal path. It was my favorite course in the state.

Never been there. Why isn't State there?

I don't think DeKoebsnd is suitable for multiple races for multiple class. Course isn't easy. Spectating isn't great.

It works better as a meet to kick off the season.

CO changes their course quite a bit. Don't know why but you have kids travel from across the state. So central is better.

Indiana uses LaVern Gibson in Terre Haute where they hold the NCAA Championships.