Not sure if this has been posted yet.
Serious distance runners would fall into this high-risk category of exercising at least 7.5 hr/week. This group was twice as likely to suffer from heart disease as those who exercise only a moderate amount. These stories about the study say only white men showed this correlation. Black men were not affected. Experts commented that the hypothesis is stress of "excessive time" exercising sustains elevated cortisol levels, causing increased calcification of the arteries.
http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/you-can-exercise-yourself-to-death-says-new-study/
http://www.medicaldaily.com/exercise-bad-you-too-much-may-be-unhealthy-your-heart-422189
Anyone gotten hold of the actual research paper? Please tell me this was some shoddy research.
Illinois long-term study says young white men who do significant amounts of aerobic exercise long-term are accelerating death
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Well, at least we'll die happy.
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If you'd asked my great grandmother in 1910, she would have told you that moderation is the key to health. Amazing how much money we've put into researching diet and activity to continue to arrive at that same conclusion.
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They did not find higher rates of heart disease, they found higher rates of calcification, which is not itself a problem but assumed to be correlated with heart disease, all else being equal. However, correlation does not imply causation and they did not find out whether high exercisers actually had higher rates of heart disease.
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Just wow... wrote:
Anyone gotten hold of the actual research paper? Please tell me this was some shoddy research.
Give me about an hour or so to get answers. I sent the second link to my father, who is a world-class hematologist who has written over 500 peer-reviewed research articles and is considered among the best in his field. I'll post his reply. -
I will find out wrote:
Just wow... wrote:
Anyone gotten hold of the actual research paper? Please tell me this was some shoddy research.
Give me about an hour or so to get answers. I sent the second link to my father, who is a world-class hematologist who has written over 500 peer-reviewed research articles and is considered among the best in his field. I'll post his reply.
It's legit -
I will find out wrote:
Just wow... wrote:
Anyone gotten hold of the actual research paper? Please tell me this was some shoddy research.
Give me about an hour or so to get answers. I sent the second link to my father, who is a world-class hematologist who has written over 500 peer-reviewed research articles and is considered among the best in his field. I'll post his reply.
Awesome! One thing that struck me as quite amazing is that there actually was a significant group of study participants that, as I'm interpreting this, averaged over 7.5 hr/week of exercise for 25 years! Is that what they are actually saying? How many people have actually done that? Also, the exercise amounts were self-reported using questionnaires. I'd imagine there was some exaggerating going on with some of the participants that were in this high-exercise category. -
Just wow... wrote:
Awesome! One thing that struck me as quite amazing is that there actually was a significant group of study participants that, as I'm interpreting this, averaged over 7.5 hr/week of exercise for 25 years! Is that what they are actually saying? How many people have actually done that? Also, the exercise amounts were self-reported using questionnaires. I'd imagine there was some exaggerating going on with some of the participants that were in this high-exercise category.
I found that interesting as well. I mentioned Hardloper's thoughts in my email to him as well, as I read through the article and came to similar conclusions. I'm a nurse, so I have a little knowledge regarding this stuff, but not anything that would help significantly other than a reasonable understanding of what the various diseases entail. My Dad likely knows the researchers personally, so he would be well aware of the study, I would assume. He is also a long-time fitness guy and ex-runner from the 70s running boom, so there's that. He might as well have been one of the study participants (he wasn't, but you know what I mean). We'll see what he says. -
Oh Darn! And I started running 50 years ago BECAUSE I had heart disease and averaged 8 hours a week of hard exercise since. Goodbye all, the reaper's got me! Oh wait, there's another race next month, can't stop now!!!!!!
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So, I got an email back from my father - he is aware of the study and those involved, and agreed with what Hardloper and I both got out of it, and his comments are as follows:
"The study design does no allow them to reach the conclusions that they reached. Associations doesn’t prove causation. The endpoint used is questionable."
Again, he's a world-class hematologist who is among the best in his field and is also one of the finest researchers in the field (500+ peer-reviewed published articles), so I would believe what he stated and not worry about the article at all. -
I will find out wrote:
So, I got an email back from my father - he is aware of the study and those involved, and agreed with what Hardloper and I both got out of it, and his comments are as follows:
[i]"The study design does no allow them to reach the conclusions that they reached. Associations doesn’t prove causation. The endpoint used is questionable."[/u]
Again, he's a world-class hematologist who is among the best in his field and is also one of the finest researchers in the field (500+ peer-reviewed published articles), so I would believe what he stated and not worry about the article at all.
Please thank your father for getting back on this. It's crazy how the people who reported on the study spun things. I actually first heard about it this afternoon from a D.J. on our local classic rock station. -
I realize that the Masai are not white, but they are an excellent example of how arterial plaque does not necessarily lead to disease (Masai have very low rate of heart attacks):
Atherosclerosis in the Masai. Am J Epidemiol 95: 26–37, 1972.–
"The hearts and aortae of 50 Masai men were collected at autopsy. These pastoral people are exceptionally active and fit and they consume diets of milk and meat. The intake of animal fat exceeds that of American men. Measurements of the aorta showed extensive atherosclerosis with lipid infiltration and fibrous changes but very few complicated lesions. The coronary arteries showed intimal thickening by atherosclerosis which equaled that of old U.S. men. The Masai vessels enlarge with age to more than compensate for this disease. It is speculated that the Masai are protected from their atherosclerosis by physical fitness which causes their coronary vessels to be capacious."
I am 60, been running for 45 years, and will get in 7-8 hours this week, as per normal, without issues. -
Glad I don't have to worry about this. I only run 7 hours a week.
I did stairmaster 28 hours one week a few years ago. -
My grandfather born in 1895 died at age 99. He wasn't in a nursing home, disabled or sickly, and was self-sufficient right up to the time he died in his sleep of natural causes. He alternated briskly walking & light jogging 5 miles everyday for most of his life, did some daily push-ups & situps, ate very healthy, dranks moderate amounts of coffee and enjoyed a good glass of wine before bed. This was his routine for decades.
None of this crazy hard core running, and marathons, and endless workouts in the gym, and all that stuff that people are obsessed with these days as if they're all going to Olympics (my grandfather would laugh at that). That kind of obsession will darn well knock the snot out of you and set you up for some bad times in your old age.
Moderation folks: walking, jogging, some strength training, good healthy food, and alcohol & caffeine in moderation. ?? -
A Smart Way To Age wrote:
My grandfather born in 1895 died at age 99. He wasn't in a nursing home, disabled or sickly, and was self-sufficient right up to the time he died in his sleep of natural causes. He alternated briskly walking & light jogging 5 miles everyday for most of his life, did some daily push-ups & situps, ate very healthy, dranks moderate amounts of coffee and enjoyed a good glass of wine before bed. This was his routine for decades.
None of this crazy hard core running, and marathons, and endless workouts in the gym, and all that stuff that people are obsessed with these days as if they're all going to Olympics (my grandfather would laugh at that). That kind of obsession will darn well knock the snot out of you and set you up for some bad times in your old age.
Moderation folks: walking, jogging, some strength training, good healthy food, and alcohol & caffeine in moderation. ??
Sounds like your grandfather was rewarded for his good sense. I emulate that with a slight adjustment of jogging averaging 10 miles every other day, plus a sprint session and short hill session each week. I also rock climb on my "off" running days, which is bodyweight resistance training and flexibility development. I also have two evening drinks every other day...so more of an interval approach to longevity. -
Testing 1,2,3
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What's the difference between a "world-class" hematologist and a national-class one? ?
I will find out wrote:
Just wow... wrote:
Anyone gotten hold of the actual research paper? Please tell me this was some shoddy research.
Give me about an hour or so to get answers. I sent the second link to my father, who is a world-class hematologist who has written over 500 peer-reviewed research articles and is considered among the best in his field. I'll post his reply. -
Calcification is real in endurance runners as is atrial fib:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8XLb1CCqHo&list=PLH3yLqj49r08yeetXFNS_brOjbYmx89a0&index=3 -
I will find out wrote:
so I would believe what he stated and not worry about the article at all.
It sounds to me like he didn't say not to worry about the conclusion, rather it sounds like he said that they overstate the certainty of their conclusion. While causation has not been proven empirically by this study, the association is startling, and absolutely merits a cause for concern, or at least consideration and further investigation. If you found good evidence that there was a strong association between eating beets and getting cancer a year later, I wouldn't say that beets cause cancer, but I'd sure as hell stop eating beets. -
A Smart Way To Age wrote:
Moderation folks: walking, jogging, some strength training, good healthy food, and alcohol & caffeine in moderation. ??
Yes, this is the key! Moderation in life! Optimize for longevity! I mean, you only live once...oh, wait
