Damn Jerry Schumacher's marathoners suck

That's 'cause Jerry sucked as a runner.

Salazar rules.

Jerry's Boys wrote:

Okay, the BTC women are alright, but women's marathon running is weak. But DAMN, the men are terrible. Of Simon Bairu, Matt Tegenkamp, Chris Solinsky, Andrew Bumbalough, and Chris Derrick, NONE of them have broken 2:12. And these are some of the fastest track guys in USA/Canada history.

2:12 doesn't cut it.

Amy Cragg and Shalane are more than allright.

Your post made me look up what Tegenkamp and Bairu were up to and when they retired.

Have any of Jerry's guys tried a marathon in their prime? My only beef with Jerry's guys in the marathon is some of them acting like 2:12 is ok.

27 low/mid guys I feel should be shooting much better even first time out in my book. This coming from a guy who only ran 2:18.

Paula ran 2:15. I think Paula is amazing but Paula was a 30:00 runner. Even 2:09 isn't competitive in non championship marathons anymore.... oops now we'll get the Galen Rupp trolls chiming in.

It is a mistake to use a 10k PR to predict a marathon PR. It is all right to have a 2:12 marathon PR.

Derrick's 2:12 was 8 seconds per mile slower than Rupp. Translated to 10K, that is 48 seconds. Derrick's 10K PR is 47 seconds slower than Rupp.

He finished 30 seconds behind the half-marathon WR-holder.

Not bad for his first time out.

Shalaney F. wrote:

It is a mistake to use a 10k PR to predict a marathon PR.

It is all right to have a 2:12 marathon PR.

wejo wrote:

Amy Cragg and Shalane are more than allright.

Your post made me look up what Tegenkamp and Bairu were up to and when they retired.

Have any of Jerry's guys tried a marathon in their prime? My only beef with Jerry's guys in the marathon is some of them acting like 2:12 is ok.

27 low/mid guys I feel should be shooting much better even first time out in my book. This coming from a guy who only ran 2:18.

Paula ran 2:15. I think Paula is amazing but Paula was a 30:00 runner. Even 2:09 isn't competitive in non championship marathons anymore.... oops now we'll get the Galen Rupp trolls chiming in.

Wojo, you ever heard of "range"

Noooo, Galen won...A win is a win.

(And I am sure he's working on a zippety do dah time)

YMMV wrote:

Derrick's 2:12 was 8 seconds per mile slower than Rupp. Translated to 10K, that is 48 seconds. Derrick's 10K PR is 47 seconds slower than Rupp.

Except Galen ran his last two miles about a minute per mile faster than Derrick's last two.

For all intents and purposes, both Derrick and Bumbalough were paced by Aaron Braun at even 2:12 pace for the first half and then couldn't hang when the tempo increased a little bit after the half. Jerry's guys have (I presume) more resources available to them than anyone except NOP and I would argue that Derrick and Bumbalough are in their prime right now.

You could make the argument that they are inexperienced marathoners, but wasn't there an analysis on this site a while back that many guys run their best (or near their lifetime best) in their first marathon. Salazar ran a 2:09:41 two months after turning 22 in his first Marathon at NYC in 1980.

Ackley wrote:

For all intents and purposes, both Derrick and Bumbalough were paced by Aaron Braun at even 2:12 pace for the first half and then couldn't hang when the tempo increased a little bit after the half. Jerry's guys have (I presume) more resources available to them than anyone except NOP and I would argue that Derrick and Bumbalough are in their prime right now.

You could make the argument that they are inexperienced marathoners, but wasn't there an analysis on this site a while back that many guys run their best (or near their lifetime best) in their first marathon. Salazar ran a 2:09:41 two months after turning 22 in his first Marathon at NYC in 1980.

Being able to put the pedal down in the second half of the race comes with experience so I'm not surprised they couldn't here, but not making an honest effort at the beginning sure didn't help them at all.

Everyone is jumping on BTC's case but you do realize that the Africans underperformed even more, don't you? 2:05 guys running 2:10-14. It was a RACE, not a Nike Monza time trail.

Ackley wrote:

For all intents and purposes, both Derrick and Bumbalough were paced by Aaron Braun at even 2:12 pace for the first half and then couldn't hang when the tempo increased a little bit after the half. Jerry's guys have (I presume) more resources available to them than anyone except NOP and I would argue that Derrick and Bumbalough are in their prime right now.

You could make the argument that they are inexperienced marathoners, but wasn't there an analysis on this site a while back that many guys run their best (or near their lifetime best) in their first marathon. Salazar ran a 2:09:41 two months after turning 22 in his first Marathon at NYC in 1980.

Actually Derrick hung around when the pace picked up initially- he was running 4:50s for a few miles (I think). He mentioned afterwards that if he had not sped up like that he might have been able to maintain a little better.

Regardless, you are right that those guys are in their primes right now and should be able to run faster. I take some consolation that as a debut, they probably were somewhat conservative in the buildup, especially coming off of a few years of injuries. I'm hopeful that he can stay healthy and consistent, go after a fast 10k and HM in the spring and then come back next fall and challenge 2:10.

You could argue that with his speed he should be easily under 2:10 but I don't want to get too hopeful.

I did not realize Bumbalough had already moved to the marathon, seems early but I guess not that early.

YMMV wrote:

Derrick's 2:12 was 8 seconds per mile slower than Rupp. Translated to 10K, that is 48 seconds. Derrick's 10K PR is 47 seconds slower than Rupp.

He finished 30 seconds behind the half-marathon WR-holder.

Not bad for his first time out.

this is absolutely silly. In what world does 8 seconds slower per mile over a marathon equate to the same difference in a 10k?

I'm not the guy to make the perfect conversion, but your method is ridiculous

To be fair, there's not a whole lot of Americans between 2:08 and 2:12 at all.

dogfarts69420 wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Derrick's 2:12 was 8 seconds per mile slower than Rupp. Translated to 10K, that is 48 seconds. Derrick's 10K PR is 47 seconds slower than Rupp.

He finished 30 seconds behind the half-marathon WR-holder.

Not bad for his first time out.

this is absolutely silly. In what world does 8 seconds slower per mile over a marathon equate to the same difference in a 10k?

I'm not the guy to make the perfect conversion, but your method is ridiculous

I am just pointing out how the numbers worked out. Check the math if you want to.

Meanwhile everyone ignores the gigantic FAIL that was East Africa in Chicago. Maybe they picked up the "American slow marathoner" contagion?

YMMV wrote:

Everyone is jumping on BTC's case but you do realize that the Africans underperformed even more, don't you? 2:05 guys running 2:10-14. It was a RACE, not a Nike Monza time trail.

Sad defense to compare his time to Galen's tactical race (and win), or to Africans who know they under-performed. Fact is the race WAS a time trial if you were running 2:11 or slower and he barely broke 2:13.

Fact is 2:12 doesn't cut it - not even in the USA let alone the world. College nobodies like Jared Ward and Jeffrey Eggleston are running faster than that.

Women’s marathon running is faaaar from weak, bud. 2 women have broken 2:18 this year and Dibaba has a 2:18 from Chicago in addition to her 2:17 in London. Plus multiple women (including Hasay) have hit 2:20 this year. Get your facts straight dude.

wejo wrote:

Amy Cragg and Shalane are more than allright.

14:51 / 30:50 / 1:07:34 / 2:19:36.

15:28 / 31:39 / 1:07:55 / 2:20:57.

14:44 / 30:22 / 1:08:31 / 2:21:14.

One of them seems to be an underachiever in marathon.

PrZ wrote:

Women’s marathon running is faaaar from weak, bud. 2 women have broken 2:18 this year and Dibaba has a 2:18 from Chicago in addition to her 2:17 in London. Plus multiple women (including Hasay) have hit 2:20 this year. Get your facts straight dude.

There's no depth. Bear in mind the world record is 2:15 by a girl from Chesire, England. I was going to say Flannagan's 2:21 best is disappointing, but the fact is, she can still get top 3 in major marathons, so I'll give her a pass.