Wanjiru vs Kipchoge`

Wanjiru died at 24, so we lost ten years or more of his career.

Far faster than Farrah at 10000, probably < 26:30 capable w good pacesetters at what, 19?

Two WR in the half marathon, dominant. Watch the videos, the second WR run was likely superior to Tadesse’s.

Essentially untouchable at the marathon.

Truth is anybody going to go < 2:03 it was him.

How many times did he run at Berlin w a squad of pacesetters?

Only Bekele can come close to matching that capability.

How is 58:33 superior to 58:23?

Just trying to be 100% objective here, but is there any evidence of the air quality/temperature/humidity on that Beijing Olympics race day we can compare to other cities (maybe even compared to where wanjiru trained)WAS IT actually that terrible? i know it was pretty humidJust seems like everyone is immortalizing wanjiru without talking about facts. (ps - i lived in beijing for a bit, so i know how terrible it can be)i know i know, this is the typical letsrun formula, but still, i have to ask. there's so many hypothetical match up threads where some dead or long gone runner is given super-human traits or talents without anything to substantiate itgo!:

broken arrow wrote:

itai1974 wrote:

Wanjiru lost to bekele when bekele broke the WR. wanjiru ran that day 26:43 (18 years old).

Beijing Olympic marathon was THE best performance of all time.

In a non-pace making race I would be on Wanjiru and otherwise tough call

I agree, his performance in Beijing was perhaps the greatest marathon of all time considering the weather conditions and the air quality.

HardLoper wrote:

Kipchoge 100%. Wanjiru's ability will be exaggerated as time goes on like Prefontaine.

Idiot.

oregon ped wrote:

Who do you think would win if they faced each other?

Have you seen the classic 20 x 400s by Wanjiru on Youtube! What a runner! I vote Wanjru!

ponds in the midwest wrote:

Just trying to be 100% objective here, but is there any evidence of the air quality/temperature/humidity on that Beijing Olympics race day we can compare to other cities (maybe even compared to where wanjiru trained)

WAS IT actually that terrible? i know it was pretty humid

Just seems like everyone is immortalizing wanjiru without talking about facts. (ps - i lived in beijing for a bit, so i know how terrible it can be)

i know i know, this is the typical letsrun formula, but still, i have to ask. there's so many hypothetical match up threads where some dead or long gone runner is given super-human traits or talents without anything to substantiate it

go!:

broken arrow wrote:

I agree, his performance in Beijing was perhaps the greatest marathon of all time considering the weather conditions and the air quality.

I have heard the temp that day was in the 70s, then going up to 80s and very humid.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Wanjiru was a 2:05 marathoner before people were even speaking about a 2:05 on a regular basis.

He died before he was 25.

Irrelevant, it's not like he was going to improve, he was already declining.

So what?He died, so we will never know whether he was or was not on his decline.He was not even 25 yet.Furthermore, he died less than a year from posting a 2:06:24 on the Chicago course in 2010.It was a "decline" of 43 seconds from his Chicago time.I am not sure if that statement is correct on your part.

HardLoper wrote:

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Wanjiru was a 2:05 marathoner before people were even speaking about a 2:05 on a regular basis.

He died before he was 25.

Irrelevant, it's not like he was going to improve, he was already declining.

I was on the course in Beijing. It was absolutely miserable to be standing outside, let alone running. My friends and I just kept drinking bottles of water and iced tea and sweating them out again. I ran ten miles and ended up in the stadium for the finish. Wanjiru ran onto the track alone and pushed hard for the whole last lap, looking great. I've never seen anyone finish like that in a big marathon when it was clearly won already except in a record attempt. (Wanjiru looked like he was responding to the huge crowd's standing ovation by running even faster.) I have trouble putting what he did into perspective, except to say that it HASN'T been exaggerated, and I've been at ten Olympics. He'd run a marathon in the toughest way--hard from the very start, racing people the whole time, never relenting--on a really awful day, and he'd made it work. The closest performance might be Benoit in LA, but she was alone and concentrating in an inward way, whereas Sammy looked like he was taking on the other runners directly as they fought with him. Steve Jones's 2:07 in Chicago comes to mind, too, but he slowed five minutes in the second half and it was much nicer weather.

I can't think anyone from any era whom I'd pick to beat Wanjiru that day, including the current Kipchoge. (Others in the conversation: Bikila in Tokyo, Shorter in Munich.) As for Eliud and Sammy on a flat course in good weather, I think there are too many hypotheticals to call it: if Sammy had lived like Eliud, maybe he'd have been a 2:02 guy at age 30--but that wouldn't have been Sammy.

Ridiculous debate. Kipchoge is winning everytime unless he bombs. Why? He is faster and would prepare himself better. Wanjiru was known to slack off in his preparation. If they knew they were racing each other, I can see Kipchoge being more ready to go. Although both have displayed incredible mental strength for the marathon.

Kipchoge's debut marathon was a minute faster than Wanjiru's. Kipchoge's PR is two minutes faster than Wanjiru's and Wanjiru couldn't hold the pace when he tried to go after world record pace. Heck, Wanjiru's best time is only 20 seconds better than Kipchoge's debut. In Chicago 2010, when Wanjiru had that great battle with Kebede, Kipchoge would have been a minute or two ahead after he dropped everyone at about mile 18 or 20.

Wanjiru's Beijing marathon was amazing, though, I'm not sure if anyone could have beat him on that day. But I think G. Mutai's 2:05.06 at New York in 2011 is just as impressive.

Wanjiru was a pioneer in career progression and style. He had the track PR's to compete for medals on the track, but went straight to the marathon at a young age. Since then, it's been a tsunami of young talented guys going straight to the roads and skipping the track altogether. This has a lot to do with where the money is at, but I think Wanjiru's example had something to do with it.

great recap - i appreciate the insight. thank you!

Yes it was an unreal. Even a quick look at the brief youtube video of the that marathon shows how quickly Wanjiru started and how he took it on his own starting with a 29:25 in the first 10k. hot it was, and humid! go to the science of sport where they analyze this marathon. They guy broke 3 minutes! in a non-paced event and crazy conditions.

Sledge_hammer wrote:How is 58:33 superior to 58:23?

it was cold & windy when he ran 58'33 & he ran it off suicidal 27'27 split !!!

tadesse split a "proper" 27'53 when he ran current wr

if Sammy had had better weather & better split judgement, he wouda run ~ 58-flat/58'10

itai1974 wrote:

oh please wrote:

Agree on Beijing 2008 as best marathon, but otherwise think Kipchoge would win.

Fact is Wanjiru led a lifestyle that was not conducive to getting the most out of himself. The record back then was 2:03:59 and he tried a couple of times with really fast starts to get it, and managed 2:05:10(?) after paying the price late in the race (including Beijing). He was definitely as mentally tough as Kipchoge though.

He didn't get the record, but he never lost a major marathon....

How many majors has Kipchoge lost? I think just 1. And I think Kipchoge has won more majors that Wanjiru won. So Kipchoge definitely is the better runner.

Plus, Wanjiru was probably "doped to the gills" as they say.

I really don't know!

Shawty wanna yolo wrote:

When Kipchoge was "18" he was really about 23

That makes him 40.

celery wrote:

itai1974 wrote:

He didn't get the record, but he never lost a major marathon....

How many majors has Kipchoge lost? I think just 1. And I think Kipchoge has won more majors that Wanjiru won. So Kipchoge definitely is the better runner.

Plus, Wanjiru was probably "doped to the gills" as they say.

Obviously, Kipchoge is the most dominant marathoner in decades.

NativeSon wrote:

Shawty wanna yolo wrote:

When Kipchoge was "18" he was really about 23

That makes him 40.

You’re forgetting the letsrun message board belief in a special East African time warp. This time warp causes East African to age at half the rate of other runners; accordingly, the message board believes that Kipchoge was 23 in 2003 and is now 30 in 2017.