In the NFL, it takes bravery to be respectful to our country

I am going to assume that you are honest in your posts. I think I understand your misunderstanding. You claim that others are assigning meaning to not standing for the national anthem and this makes no sense to you. You don't see why others would care what you do or don't do? Am I right so far?Many people have difficulty understanding unwritten group behaviors, values and expectancies. They don't get the meaning of why people would stand during the national anthem or why people would chose not to stand. They don't understand why people would look poorly upon those who act contrary. Its difficult to explain and is complex. Also it changes based on the context. After president Trump spoke, those kneeling may be communicating defiance of Trump or support of team. This is not as you claim a totalitarian thing although it might feel like that to you. Its a normal group reaction. You act contrarian like that in any democracy on a group patriotic behavior and the crowd would act the same.Most who kneel or don't kneel know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it but its not written anywhere. A few find this difficult to understand.

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

Really, despite your intellectual obfuscation of this issue, remember sometimes the simplest explanation is the most accurate.

Ask the kid you are with what it means when you sit during the national anthem when everyone else is standing.

Then you will have the simple truth.

In other words you are unable to make a cogent case for your position. I understand that.

//////////////////////////////////////////

In the meantime, here are a couple of things for you to ponder.

Who would you say is more comfortable in their own skin - the person who feels that it is important for others to act the same way as they do or the person who is comfortable with others choosing to act differently?

Is there some reason that you want America to be like all totalitarian regimes across the world in requiring conformity to "patriotic" rituals?

They are using kneeling as a platform for awareness to an issue important to them. You incorrectly conflated that with disgust for our country.

Red white & blue wrote:

I am a Giants fan, and I have always been excited to watch Beckham and his amazing plays but I was disgusted by his demonstration. I can live with the giants losing one of the toughest games to watch as fan, but that little display showed a tremendous lack of discipline reflecting poorly on the whole team.

OBJ suggested that the urinating thing was a reference to Trump's "son of a bitch" comment. I thought it was both hilarious and on point, and the No Fun League apparently hasn't eased up on their celebration rules (See: Von Miller getting 15 yards for giving Tyrod Taylor a "too slow" when offering to help him up) like they said they would.

Yes in one post I did use the word disgust. That was hyperbole and was incorrect to use.However, I stand by my claim that a particular issue is preventing them from wanting to show honor to the country. Basically the message is, "I can't honor a country that allows this to occur"

Losker wrote:

They are using kneeling as a platform for awareness to an issue important to them. You incorrectly conflated that with disgust for our country.

This will sound like an implied put down, but its a serious question.How old are you?In my history with watching and supporting some of the greatest sports figures I can't imagine someone like a Joe Montana pretending to pee on the field. They had way too much dignity and class. I liked that.I guess its different for you.

FitzyXC wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

I am a Giants fan, and I have always been excited to watch Beckham and his amazing plays but I was disgusted by his demonstration. I can live with the giants losing one of the toughest games to watch as fan, but that little display showed a tremendous lack of discipline reflecting poorly on the whole team.

OBJ suggested that the urinating thing was a reference to Trump's "son of a bitch" comment. I thought it was both hilarious and on point, and the No Fun League apparently hasn't eased up on their celebration rules (See: Von Miller getting 15 yards for giving Tyrod Taylor a "too slow" when offering to help him up) like they said they would.

It was multiple posts you used "disgust", actually.

Anyway, it doesn't seem very American to me to have a compulsory pledge to our flag and to blacklist anyone who doesn't participate.

All I see is a bunch of conservative snowflakes. "Why won't they stand during the national anthem. I don't want to see them do that so I'm not going to watch the NFL."

Our president is trying to force people to stand for the anthem by encouraging their employers to fire them otherwise. That's fascism plain and simple.

#takeaknee

Éléphant in a cage wrote:

Anyone that respects the US is simply ignorant. A stolen land built by people that were stolen from another continent. A country founded on terrorism and genocide.

So pretty much like every country to-date? You do realize that conquering and expanding borders/exchanging control has been a mainstay for thousands of years. Read a book, bro

Losker wrote:

They are using kneeling as a platform for awareness to an issue important to them. You incorrectly conflated that with disgust for our country.

Except that pretty much everyone in America associates standing/paying respect to the anthem/flag as respect so naturally kneeling is going to be interpreted as disgust/disrespect for the country. You can't pick and choose here and say he meant this or didn't mean that when the action is naturally going to be interpreted that way.

If any of these guys would really like to "make a stand" (get it? because they were kneeling), than they should do something with their celebrity outside of the stadium. Put that money to good use and raise awareness. How many people besides Kaepernick have been doing anything outside of the stadium? I might even chalk up his action to the fact that he has no team to represent inside the stadium anyway. It's the same contrive dribble we see every year with celebrities going on award shows to tell us how outraged they are and how we need to stand up...but then they go back to their mansions, sip their matcha tea, and play super smash.

ShowmetheMONEY wrote:

Losker wrote:

They are using kneeling as a platform for awareness to an issue important to them. You incorrectly conflated that with disgust for our country.

Except that pretty much everyone in America associates standing/paying respect to the anthem/flag as respect so naturally kneeling is going to be interpreted as disgust/disrespect for the country. You can't pick and choose here and say he meant this or didn't mean that when the action is naturally going to be interpreted that way.

Choosing a high profile moment to raise awareness to an issue != disgust for your country. You can't infer that based solely on kneeling during the anthem.

Losker wrote:

ShowmetheMONEY wrote:

Except that pretty much everyone in America associates standing/paying respect to the anthem/flag as respect so naturally kneeling is going to be interpreted as disgust/disrespect for the country. You can't pick and choose here and say he meant this or didn't mean that when the action is naturally going to be interpreted that way.

Choosing a high profile moment to raise awareness to an issue != disgust for your country. You can't infer that based solely on kneeling during the anthem.

What? Sure you can. The action can immediately be inferred as disrespect/disgust since it is a complete 180 from what is typically the normal practice. In fact, without knowing what issue exactly they are trying to raise awareness for, disrespect/disgust is the ONLY thing you can infer.

L L wrote:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20819284/alejandro-villanueva-pittsburgh-steelers-standing-alone-intentional

Not bravery

Just a mistake

Will all of his jerseys be returned?

The sad thing about this is that to me, a lifelong Steelers fan who has been following Villanueva since he was signed years ago, is that people are using him as a political prop, with no understanding of the greater nuances behind his actions and statements.

Instead Fox News sees him standing by himself (the rest of the team is behind him in the tunnel, NOT the locker room) and calls him a hero. Sorry, but he was actually a hero before this, when he was in Afghanistan. He had some insightful things to say last year when asked about Kaepernick's protest. The national media (on both sides) conveniently failed to look any deeper into the story and learn about the respect between Villanueva and his teammates. They somehow view this as an apology for standing during the anthem, when in reality he was apologizing for unintentionally slighting his teammates.

If it was multiple posts, then I plea guilty to caving in to hyperbole to make my argument seem more persuasive. I certainly am strongly opposed to compulsory pledging. I agree with you.However, two points, One, if you chose to make a public demonstration of your refusal to respect the country, accept the fact that people are entitled to show there displeasure over that act. People should not be condemned if they boo the act or think less of you.And secondly, do it on your own time. Not as an employee and a representative of another group.

Losker wrote:

It was multiple posts you used "disgust", actually.

Anyway, it doesn't seem very American to me to have a compulsory pledge to our flag and to blacklist anyone who doesn't participate.

Red white & blue wrote:

This will sound like an implied put down, but its a serious question.

How old are you?

In my history with watching and supporting some of the greatest sports figures I can't imagine someone like a Joe Montana pretending to pee on the field. They had way too much dignity and class. I liked that.

I guess its different for you.

FitzyXC wrote:

OBJ suggested that the urinating thing was a reference to Trump's "son of a bitch" comment. I thought it was both hilarious and on point, and the No Fun League apparently hasn't eased up on their celebration rules (See: Von Miller getting 15 yards for giving Tyrod Taylor a "too slow" when offering to help him up) like they said they would.

25. Trump called OBJ and his fellow players an SOB, he showed him what a literal SOB looks like. The league has changed since the 1960s. I'm sorry you can't appreciate it.

And I would think Trump supporters would understand what happens when you repeatedly get told you can't/shouldn't do something, especially if it is by an authority figure: you want to do it even more out of spite.

Actually there are many many of today's sport heroes with both class and dignity. They would not be pretending to piss on the field. Dignity is not just a 60's thing.I very much appreciate the athletes of today who do hold themselves with dignity.OBJ proved himself to be classless. It may not matter to you, but some of us still expect better. And on another issue, just because I think Trump would be better for our country than Hillary, I don't for a minute condone his classless comments.But that discussion is for a different thread.

FitzyXC wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

This will sound like an implied put down, but its a serious question.

How old are you?

In my history with watching and supporting some of the greatest sports figures I can't imagine someone like a Joe Montana pretending to pee on the field. They had way too much dignity and class. I liked that.

I guess its different for you.

25. Trump called OBJ and his fellow players an SOB, he showed him what a literal SOB looks like. The league has changed since the 1960s. I'm sorry you can't appreciate it.

And I would think Trump supporters would understand what happens when you repeatedly get told you can't/shouldn't do something, especially if it is by an authority figure: you want to do it even more out of spite.

You must not have read the article, because you had, you would know that he intended to stay in the tunnel with the rest of the team, a decision that he made on Saturday night. This is another article about him:

exthrower wrote:

He chickened out and decided to throw his soldier comrades 'under the bus;....Sickening...There is very little honor left in this country....

Democrats wanted a 'diverse' country and this is what they created....A complete chitty mess....

Your hood is showing...

I take a knee to BLM, I take a knee to the KKK, I take a knee to any group that supports hate, and I take a knee to over paid athletes disrespecting this very country I fought for. I do not take a knee to the Anthem.