In the NFL, it takes bravery to be respectful to our country

Red white & blue wrote:

spade detector wrote:

You haven't convinced me that kneeling for the anthem is disrespectful to our country or procludes one from having pride in the USA.

You are neglecting the whole purpose behind the national anthem. Its an opportunity for a large group of countrymen to publicly and in group demonstrate their respect and love of country. Most feel it is something nice to do.

Kneeling or sitting during it communicates that in this instant (for whatever reason) you refuse to act in a manner that shows you respect this country. At this moment I don't respect this country and refuse to act like I do respect this country.

I really don't see how you don't think its disrespectful, if you really want to demonstrate against racial injustice, hold a sign up or something at a different time, do not sit at the time people when people are showing respect to the country.

I am not angry when people disrespect our country. I think less of them and truthfully, don't like it.

I certainly have as much right to express my displeasure at them as they have in expressing their displeasure at my country, right?

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Here, let me explain this to you.

1) If folks want to stand for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem that is fine with me.

2) I have no interest in standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem. The fact that you seem to think you have something to say about this strikes me as bizarre.

3) I could just as easily complain about your choice to stand. But I don't. Because it's none of my f'ing business what you choose to do (as long as it is not stomping on someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).

4) You choose to assign some sort of meaning to these types of rituals. That is your right. I do not assign any meaning to these rituals. You trying to assign a meaning for me is inappropriate.

5) I am not angry with you for assigning some meaning to these rituals for yourself and acting accordingly. I don't share such an interest in these rituals but I respect your right to do so.

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

You are neglecting the whole purpose behind the national anthem. Its an opportunity for a large group of countrymen to publicly and in group demonstrate their respect and love of country. Most feel it is something nice to do.

Kneeling or sitting during it communicates that in this instant (for whatever reason) you refuse to act in a manner that shows you respect this country. At this moment I don't respect this country and refuse to act like I do respect this country.

I really don't see how you don't think its disrespectful, if you really want to demonstrate against racial injustice, hold a sign up or something at a different time, do not sit at the time people when people are showing respect to the country.

I am not angry when people disrespect our country. I think less of them and truthfully, don't like it.

I certainly have as much right to express my displeasure at them as they have in expressing their displeasure at my country, right?

Here, let me explain this to you.

1) If folks want to stand for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem that is fine with me.

2) I have no interest in standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem. The fact that you seem to think you have something to say about this strikes me as bizarre.

3) I could just as easily complain about your choice to stand. But I don't. Because it's none of my f'ing business what you choose to do (as long as it is not stomping on someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).

4) You choose to assign some sort of meaning to these types of rituals. That is your right. I do not assign any meaning to these rituals. You trying to assign a meaning for me is inappropriate.

5) I am not angry with you for assigning some meaning to these rituals for yourself and acting accordingly. I don't share such an interest in these rituals but I respect your right to do so.

don't have it right wrote:

Red White and Blue - I could see the fans not really reacting to the anthem protests in New York. They are used to this kind of thing. I don't think the conduct plays so well in places like Charlotte - an area where the population is growing. But again I think the point is that the players are not helping themselves in terms of the entertainment product. I don't want to pick on Beckham, but his conduct yesterday illustrates the problem. And worse yet, he pulls this kind of stunt when they lose the game!

Trump really does have a penchant for sticking the foot in his mouth. I mean, like him or not, he has actually owned a football team, and his NFL busting tactics indeed helped everyday players, raising wages for them. I don't get why he didn't simply say look, these guys have a right to express themselves, but it doesn't help the product, and doesn't help the employees either.

Red white & blue wrote:

Nicely formulated argument but let me explain why you are wrong. Certain symbols and acts have a universally accepted meaning. You can deny that this is true but reality contradicts you.

If I flip you the bird, I can claim that that symbol does not show disrespect to you, but reality says it does. (In some contexts it may not but mostly you will know its disrespectful).

Its universally accepted that standing with everyone during the national anthem is a sign of respect toward the country.

You can deny this, but reality tells you that it communicates respect. Its odd the you think an act so accept by so many is bizarre. Maybe your take on this is the one out of step with reality.

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Here, let me explain this to you.

1) If folks want to stand for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem that is fine with me.

2) I have no interest in standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem. The fact that you seem to think you have something to say about this strikes me as bizarre.

3) I could just as easily complain about your choice to stand. But I don't. Because it's none of my f'ing business what you choose to do (as long as it is not stomping on someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).

4) You choose to assign some sort of meaning to these types of rituals. That is your right. I do not assign any meaning to these rituals. You trying to assign a meaning for me is inappropriate.

5) I am not angry with you for assigning some meaning to these rituals for yourself and acting accordingly. I don't share such an interest in these rituals but I respect your right to do so.

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Red white & blue wrote:

Nicely formulated argument but let me explain why you are wrong. Certain symbols and acts have a universally accepted meaning. You can deny that this is true but reality contradicts you.

If I flip you the bird, I can claim that that symbol does not show disrespect to you, but reality says it does. (In some contexts it may not but mostly you will know its disrespectful).

Its universally accepted that standing with everyone during the national anthem is a sign of respect toward the country.

You can deny this, but reality tells you that it communicates respect. Its odd the you think an act so accept by so many is bizarre. Maybe your take on this is the one out of step with reality.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

1) Flipping the bird, as the example you note, is a conscious decision to act toward someone. That is the complete opposite of a decision not to partake in a particular action nor assign a particular meaning to a given ritual. As such, your example is completely invalid.

2) "Its universally accepted that standing with everyone during the national anthem is a sign of respect toward the country." This statement is categorically false. As I correctly stated in my previous post, YOU may assign it this meaning. I do not. You may have a hard time understanding this but your assignment of meaning has no value and no validity for others.

3) Regarding your "Its odd the you think an act so accept by so many is bizarre. Maybe your take on this is the one out of step with reality.". Let me be perfectly clear, (though in truth I believe that I was clear the first time through). I do not in any way think that someone standing for the nathional anthem is bizarre. If that was what you were referring to then you should read posts more carefully before responding.

What I DO think is bizarre is "The fact that you seem to think you have something to say about me having no interest in standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem." As mentioned, feel free to act as you wish during such rituals. I will do the same. I will also show the maturity and respect required to avoid making any judgement of your actions so long as they do not violate others' rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Red white & blue wrote:

Really, despite your intellectual obfuscation of this issue, remember sometimes the simplest explanation is the most accurate.

Ask the kid you are with what it means when you sit during the national anthem when everyone else is standing.

Then you will have the simple truth.

Pointing It Out! wrote:

Sorry, but you are wrong.

1) Flipping the bird, as the example you note, is a conscious decision to act toward someone. That is the complete opposite of a decision not to partake in a particular action nor assign a particular meaning to a given ritual. As such, your example is completely invalid.

2) "Its universally accepted that standing with everyone during the national anthem is a sign of respect toward the country." This statement is categorically false. As I correctly stated in my previous post, YOU may assign it this meaning. I do not. You may have a hard time understanding this but your assignment of meaning has no value and no validity for others.

3) Regarding your "Its odd the you think an act so accept by so many is bizarre. Maybe your take on this is the one out of step with reality.". Let me be perfectly clear, (though in truth I believe that I was clear the first time through). I do not in any way think that someone standing for the nathional anthem is bizarre. If that was what you were referring to then you should read posts more carefully before responding.

What I DO think is bizarre is "The fact that you seem to think you have something to say about me having no interest in standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem." As mentioned, feel free to act as you wish during such rituals. I will do the same. I will also show the maturity and respect required to avoid making any judgement of your actions so long as they do not violate others' rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.