"Trump called them out on it. In the long run, HE WILL NOT BE HURT BY THIS but might actually gain popularity for his bravery.
I know most liberals will not understand or believe this."
No, we totally understand trump is blowing air up his constituents arses. and we know they'll fall for it....again.
If you gave enough of a sh!t to learn about what happened you'd know he had unanimous support from his team to go and do that. you'd also know that nobody reasonable really thinks it's a big deal that he did it.
Red white & blue wrote:
Is it really that hard to to respect our country, its people, its values?
Ask the fascist, criminal bigot you helped put in the White House. Only Republicans could be stupid enough to see standing up for a song at a football game as an appropriate gauge of one's patriotism.
You voted for a reality tv star who bragged about sexually assaulting women. You voted for a intensely greedy narcissist whose stereotypical gold digging wife has naked photos plastered all over the internet. You voted for an obvious know-nothing who will always, ALWAYS punch down rather than reach out. You voted for a draft-dodging coward who has completely abdicated America's position as the leader of the free world. You voted for a fool who shows no concern about poking a deranged nuclear power with a stick, but is terribly worried the opinions of professional athletes. Conservatives have wiped their collective asses on the flag by cheering on this disgraceful moron, and now they deign to lecture us about respecting the country's people and values? Get bent.
Tomlin seemed pissed at him because he violated the spirit of team unity. Good for him.
why does this issue matter?
The guys kneeling have respect for the country because they are speaking out against an injustice.
Villanueva has respect for our country because he was brave enough to fight to defend it AND he wasn't afraid to go out there alone and stand up for what he believes in.
You haven't convinced me that kneeling for the anthem is disrespectful to our country or procludes one from having pride in the USA.
I'm not buying it. I just don't think kneeling during the national anthem is really disrespectful to the flag or the country. As a symbol, kneeling is an even more respectful gesture than standing. Nobody is burning the flag or doing something obnoxious and disrupting during the national anthem, now that would be disrespectful.
I have a suspicion that those most offended by the kneeling are exaggerating the disrespectfulness of this mainly because they disagree with the issue the players are trying to get people to talk about. If they were protesting for a conservative issue I don't think you'd hear many people complaining.
Anyone that respects the US is simply ignorant. A stolen land built by people that were stolen from another continent. A country founded on terrorism and genocide.
I will assume you are another 'conservative Christian' because you pretend the despite having qualms with the country there is still some intangible thing called a country that is owed 'honor'. It isn't a false God! I just sing to it and get offended when people refuse to join me!
Red white & blue wrote:
I will assume you are a troll because you pretend to think people are honoring a piece of material woven into a flag.
The national anthem is showing your love and respect for your country. Its not saying your country has no faults or does nothing wrong. People honoring this country know there are many things the government might do that they think are wrong, but they still love and honor this country.
Do you get it now?
Now if you really are disgusted with and hate this country and feel you can't show it honor and respect, then by all means sit down. But do it on your own time, not when you are being paid indirectly by all the fans who still love the country.
A post trophy wrote:I'm genuinely having trouble with declining-to-worship-a-graven-image somehow being equated with having-respect-for-one's-country.
The *real* disrespect IMHO comes when the SSB--our *national anthem*--is played to commemorate something as trivial as a sporting event.
spade detector wrote:
You haven't convinced me that kneeling for the anthem is disrespectful to our country or procludes one from having pride in the USA.
You are neglecting the whole purpose behind the national anthem. Its an opportunity for a large group of countrymen to publicly and in group demonstrate their respect and love of country. Most feel it is something nice to do.
Kneeling or sitting during it communicates that in this instant (for whatever reason) you refuse to act in a manner that shows you respect this country. At this moment I don't respect this country and refuse to act like I do respect this country.
I really don't see how you don't think its disrespectful, if you really want to demonstrate against racial injustice, hold a sign up or something at a different time, do not sit at the time people when people are showing respect to the country.
I am not angry when people disrespect our country. I think less of them and truthfully, don't like it.
I certainly have as much right to express my displeasure at them as they have in expressing their displeasure at my country, right?
In that respect, it is no different than any other country. All world lines have been drawn by wars. Ours is one of the most free, most equal and least racist. Long before Europeans came to the Americas there was warfare between the different aboriginal peoples, enslavement, etc. We are no different than any other tribe (except that we are still making payments to a number of these tribes, over a hundred thirty years after the last indian wars).
You do understand that the country consists of the people in the country. I have no problem honoring the people, our values and our beliefs.I see no contradiction with Christian values. I really don't think God would be offended for me showing some respect and honor to my country.Nice try though.
Worshipers wrote:
I will assume you are another 'conservative Christian' because you pretend the despite having qualms with the country there is still some intangible thing called a country that is owed 'honor'.
It isn't a false God! I just sing to it and get offended when people refuse to join me!
Red white & blue wrote:I will assume you are a troll because you pretend to think people are honoring a piece of material woven into a flag.
The national anthem is showing your love and respect for your country. Its not saying your country has no faults or does nothing wrong. People honoring this country know there are many things the government might do that they think are wrong, but they still love and honor this country.
Do you get it now?
Now if you really are disgusted with and hate this country and feel you can't show it honor and respect, then by all means sit down. But do it on your own time, not when you are being paid indirectly by all the fans who still love the country.
I don't think the issue really has anything to do with the "criminal bigot" that conservatives put in the White House. Trump - who is not very wise - should have simply said, "Look, I have owned a football team, and while the players are free to do as they like, I am not sure it is good for business". And he would have been right, because they players have lots of other avenues for protest than not standing for a national anthem.
On a personal level, I don't feel any differently about what today's football athletes are doing than what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did in the Mexico City Olympics. I think they are being treated too harshly by some, because while they are well paid, they are at the same time exploited by a league which has nowhere near the contracts or protections that MLB and NBA players do, and their health is at considerably more risk than with other sports (boxing and MMA excepted). One can see where they are coming from, especially given their experiences (by and large) as black Americans. They have short, dangerous careers for the most part. But all it is a reminder that pro athletes - paid entertainers - have to pay attention to the paying public. My guess is that the current players are alienating a few, or a bit more than a few, and while I think conservatives are overstating the matter when ascribing the NFL's lower ratings and attendance to the kneeling before the anthem conduct, it still is a factor and at the end of the day likely not a wise business decision.
It all must be observed in context, too. The players by and large don't have as much of a rope with the everyday public as they used to. And it is in large part due to the players' conduct. (And I am not talking about the anthem protests).
Just yesterday, Odell Beckham was given a misconduct penalty for acting out after a touchdown. What was he doing? He was acting like he was urinating like a dog (on the Eagles team name). These kind of antics wear thin, because it give off vibes that players care more about getting on Sportscenter or fulfilling immature impulses that winning the game. And yes, the Giants lost the game! Fans like a good product, especially at the outrageous prices for tickets, parking, and so on, and that includes players who act like they have done it before. And in the past, good team members would get a guy like that to knock if off.
The antics like I describe above are turning me off to the game, and that is a hard thing to do (my grandfather played professional football in the 30's). But at some point it all gets tiresome, because what keeps fans in the seats and on TV screens is good, disciplined team football.
Red white & blue wrote:
spade detector wrote:You haven't convinced me that kneeling for the anthem is disrespectful to our country or procludes one from having pride in the USA.
You are neglecting the whole purpose behind the national anthem. Its an opportunity for a large group of countrymen to publicly and in group demonstrate their respect and love of country. Most feel it is something nice to do.
Kneeling or sitting during it communicates that in this instant (for whatever reason) you refuse to act in a manner that shows you respect this country. At this moment I don't respect this country and refuse to act like I do respect this country.
I really don't see how you don't think its disrespectful, if you really want to demonstrate against racial injustice, hold a sign up or something at a different time, do not sit at the time people when people are showing respect to the country.
I am not angry when people disrespect our country. I think less of them and truthfully, don't like it.
I certainly have as much right to express my displeasure at them as they have in expressing their displeasure at my country, right?
That is just your interpretation of what their actions mean, but that doesn't make the action inherently disrespectful to our country. And of course you are free to express your opinion on the matter.
You are just being argumentative. So your argument is that those who kneel are actually showing most respect to the country that those standing? Remember the context, it makes all the difference.People have the right to burn flags, to demonstrate and chant that they hate America, they can refuse to stand during the anthem, none of this is anything like a crime.But when someone disrespects my country I have a right to express my displeasure about it. Why are all these posts saying that I shouldn't express displeasure about it.This seems very hypocritical to me. If the fans boo, they are just showing their feelings like the guys showing their feelings by not standing. You can't be critical of one group and not the other.You posters have a clear double standard here.
rabble rabble rabble wrote:
I'm not buying it. I just don't think kneeling during the national anthem is really disrespectful to the flag or the country. As a symbol, kneeling is an even more respectful gesture than standing. Nobody is burning the flag or doing something obnoxious and disrupting during the national anthem, now that would be disrespectful.
I have a suspicion that those most offended by the kneeling are exaggerating the disrespectfulness of this mainly because they disagree with the issue the players are trying to get people to talk about. If they were protesting for a conservative issue I don't think you'd hear many people complaining.
belial wrote:
L L wrote:So imagine the guts it took for Kaepernick to do what he did, going against his piers. And taking on national backlash and losing income from it.
Kapernick is a true hero; at great personal sacrifice to his career and at the risk of violent retaliation from gun-clenching racists and a banana republic, he decided to take a 'stand' by kneeling. He is on the right side of history, but rarely does being on the right side of history bring praise in the here and now. Well, that ends now: he has my praise. Well done, good sir, and keep fighting the good fight.
Your "true hero" of the NFL wore socks depicting police officers as pigs.
Idiot.
Well let's break it down....Honoring the people... would God have a problem with you honoring a specific set of people for their geographic location? I seem to recall some pretty specific verbiage about removing cultural identifiers coming from Paul...except he was taking about Gods chosen people (Jews) not even being of separate honor from the Gentiles. Doesn't seem like you have any reason for honoring 'Americans' over your African brothers and sisters in Christ. (Besides of course your blind idolatry of America).Honoring our values....well the number 1 value codified in our constitution is freedom of expression and you seem to be pretty defensive of people practicing it when it doesn't 'respect your country' even when the whole point was to allow people to freely speak against various elements of their country without fear.... so what value are you honoring here? The value to worship your flag god unhindered it seems.Oh and beliefs? What beliefs? We are a diverse nation with several faiths and political beliefs. In this case you are hoping that people will stop injecting THEIR beliefs into your entertainment.Not that the NFL has to worry. AmeriFats don't know what to do with themselves if they can't sit at the alter of Entertainment Capitalism on Sundays so the 'boycotts' will last about 3 weeks max.
Red white & blue wrote:
You do understand that the country consists of the people in the country. I have no problem honoring the people, our values and our beliefs.
I see no contradiction with Christian values. I really don't think God would be offended for me showing some respect and honor to my country.
Nice try though.
Worshipers wrote:I will assume you are another 'conservative Christian' because you pretend the despite having qualms with the country there is still some intangible thing called a country that is owed 'honor'.
It isn't a false God! I just sing to it and get offended when people refuse to join me!
Your "true hero" complains about "oppression" yet wears communist dictator tee shirts.
I am a Giants fan, and I have always been excited to watch Beckham and his amazing plays but I was disgusted by his demonstration. I can live with the giants losing one of the toughest games to watch as fan, but that little display showed a tremendous lack of discipline reflecting poorly on the whole team. Personally. I don't think the sitting during the anthem or Trumps remarks will have much of an impact on attendance at games. It will impact endorsements if players are disrespectful to the country.
don't have it right wrote:
I don't think the issue really has anything to do with the "criminal bigot" that conservatives put in the White House. Trump - who is not very wise - should have simply said, "Look, I have owned a football team, and while the players are free to do as they like, I am not sure it is good for business". And he would have been right, because they players have lots of other avenues for protest than not standing for a national anthem.
On a personal level, I don't feel any differently about what today's football athletes are doing than what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did in the Mexico City Olympics. I think they are being treated too harshly by some, because while they are well paid, they are at the same time exploited by a league which has nowhere near the contracts or protections that MLB and NBA players do, and their health is at considerably more risk than with other sports (boxing and MMA excepted). One can see where they are coming from, especially given their experiences (by and large) as black Americans. They have short, dangerous careers for the most part. But all it is a reminder that pro athletes - paid entertainers - have to pay attention to the paying public. My guess is that the current players are alienating a few, or a bit more than a few, and while I think conservatives are overstating the matter when ascribing the NFL's lower ratings and attendance to the kneeling before the anthem conduct, it still is a factor and at the end of the day likely not a wise business decision.
It all must be observed in context, too. The players by and large don't have as much of a rope with the everyday public as they used to. And it is in large part due to the players' conduct. (And I am not talking about the anthem protests).
Just yesterday, Odell Beckham was given a misconduct penalty for acting out after a touchdown. What was he doing? He was acting like he was urinating like a dog (on the Eagles team name). These kind of antics wear thin, because it give off vibes that players care more about getting on Sportscenter or fulfilling immature impulses that winning the game. And yes, the Giants lost the game! Fans like a good product, especially at the outrageous prices for tickets, parking, and so on, and that includes players who act like they have done it before. And in the past, good team members would get a guy like that to knock if off.
The antics like I describe above are turning me off to the game, and that is a hard thing to do (my grandfather played professional football in the 30's). But at some point it all gets tiresome, because what keeps fans in the seats and on TV screens is good, disciplined team football.