Kipchoge Training in detail (link)

This post reeks of authority and yet has an ineffable, even mysterious quality that just screams out: "Can't you all tell I am an EXPERT here, gudammit!"

What's even worse, is that these are likely two grown men.

5k to Marathon wrote:

High volume. Tues/Thurs/Saturday workouts/hard efforts (higher frequency than I expected). All the workouts (except 300s and tempos) are at 5k/10kish pace or Half/Marathonish pace effort.

I know the 80/20 training is big now. From my understanding basically the 80/20 is about an optimal way to train easy/hard based on studies of elite runners and their training patterns. Basically training "easy" 80% of the time is optimal in terms of performance and improvement. But based on Kipchoges training his balance is more like 58/42. I'm guessing its easier to have a higher frequency of "hard" efforts when the majority of your "hard" efforts are at marathon pace? I'm assuming Kipchoge would not follow the pattern in terms of frequency of quality sessions if his focus was training for 5k/10k?

Thoughts?

I think there's a good conversation to be had here. It looks like most of that running is right around marathon pace (albeit at altitude). Being a 2:37-2:38 guy looking to still improve I'm running a lot of 10k/half marathon paced reps in my workouts trying to get faster. If I was on the track running 10-12 x 1km @ 6:00 pace, I would be able to bounce back after a day or two versus the two or three or more I need when I knock out 3 x 3 miles @ 5:45-5:50 (something along those lines). I wonder what would happen if I just did 40% of my mileage at 6:00 pace. It would be tough but maybe doable? Kipchoge is at the top of the game, he can spend all his time perfecting 2:00:00-2:03:00 marathon pace. Being 30+ minutes behind him, I'm never going to be in the 2:20s running just 6:00 pace.

Actually you don't know that. People underestimate the aerobic benefit of running at marathon pace and even slightly slower at high volumes.

The entire spectrum of training paces becomes more condensed with those running in the lower 2 hour range. Velocity at Lactate Threshold starts to approach Vo2max velocity in more experienced runners reaching closer to their maximum potential at the marathon. While a 2:36 marathoner can usually easily drop the hammer on sub 6-min pace for "faster workouts" for extended periods of time, the gear shifting ability at the lower 2hr range (i.e. even only at sub 2:15) becomes a lot more subtle as a difference of 5-10 seconds/mile become increasingly important and harder to execute. OF course 80/20 (read: Pareto principle) isn't new in distance running training. It seemed to happen organically (roughly) with Lydiard style aerobic base building. But it depends on phases of training and periodization with sprinkling intensity over Lactate Threshold...Canova style 40km Long Runs very close to marathon pace are certainly very tough and require a high level of mileage background, experience, durability and aerobic efficiency/strength.

A lot of interesting take aways from this.

Kipchoge's easy days are run pretty slowly. This seems to contrast Canova's training plans. Canova's athletes seem to do more mileage and their easy runs are much faster as well.

He has short warm-ups and cool-downs done at an incredibly slow pace. Not much stretching and then goes right into it. Does he do any strides? He trains very early in the morning. I'd also be curious to know if he eats anything before the workout. None of the fancy pre-run activation exercises done before he shuffles out the door that seem to be so popular for American runners these days.

Did Kipchoge log this training himself? Who can we thank for publishing this online? How do we know it's not 100% fabricated?

I don't understand how he can seemingly jog around for a bit, then jump right into a workout. I usually have to have some uptempo running/strides/drills before I feel good enough to start working out. I've also noticed that the more fit you are, the longer and more intense warmups you need.

Not saying that something other then 80/20 couldent be optimal for One individual. The 80/20 comes from a recovery/trade-off perspective. IF someone, for whatever reason can recover from 70/30, 60/40 it might be morse optimal. Should also depend on muscle type conposition and individual strenghts/wekness i presume.

There was a record-holder who did 100/0 training: Derek Clayton. He couldn't sustain it, but it made him the first under 2:10 and his WR lasted for 12 years.

In his weeks of about 190k, he does about 60-70k of quality running (35%), but that's only if we count his Thursday long run as quality. It's like 2 workouts of about 15k of running at 10k to marathon pace and then a long run of 30-40k at 30-40 seconds per mile slower than marathon pace. If we don't count the long runs, it's more like 15%.

"You can't decide that 25 seconds faster than marathon pace is high intensity, 10k-HM type stuff, but 25 seconds slower is still "marathonish"

What? You lost me. I think we are missing each other. I was stating that every other day he is doing high quality stuff pretty much. Something that would be classified as a workout/quality effort falling somewhere within the 5k to marathon pace spectrum. Not an easy/recovery day. Arguably, 25 seconds slower than marathon pace at 7k + altitutude on hilly/muddy/dirt mountain roads is relatively close to marathon pace effort in perfect conditions (again this is arguable and not exact). In the article they didn't give any feedback on the elevation gain/loss but assuming it was probably rolling i wouldnt be surpised if they gained over 1k elevation gain over the course of the route. Given the GAP + the altitude converstion (some would argue it doesnt negatively effect them) run at I would argue that is more than likely close to marathon pace effort and would fall under category of marathon pace quality/workout spectrum (again arguable and not exact, so I understand your perspective). Simply from the beginning I was stating that he is touching on a variety of quality paces and doing a higher volume of quality efforts than what I have observed is popular in the states. I think it is a fair observation. All his quality efforts roughly fall somewhere on the spectrum of 5k pace effort to marathon pace effort every other day for the most part. Many americans "elites" again arguable on what we consider "elite" are doing 1-2 quality days (sometimes 3) per week with workouts specific to their event with high relative volume. Again, I think we are misunderstanding each other....maybe not but I dont understand why you feel the need to condemn me for seeing things from that perspective but if you feel the need to go for it. Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert. Probably relative to you, I'm a "nube" but man whatever. If you wanna be a dick, then be a dick. Either way I commend you for the knowledge of the sport you possess. Just a suggestion though, if you want to gain other peoples respect and want them to learn from you a better approach would be more honorable, understanding and less condemning of their "lack" of knowledge. We are all students and learning (even you). At one point in time (years ago) you weren't so "knowledgeable" and if anything else the need to put someone down is more a manifestation of the pride-fullness you struggle with. If you don't care and want to spread hate, keep doing what your doing :) I like many are tired of people that feel the need to put others down. Its not ok. All of us need to learn to be a little more humble, understandable and to love others (even those that have an entirely different understanding). In the grand scheme of things even the "wisest" are rambling idiots and possess .000001% of the knowledge there is to possess. Even in the sport of athletics,running,etc. We know nothing. Sure we have made progress but we are only 100 meters into a Marathon Race. Again, have a good day just please dont be an a**hole. You carry something of value that people need but if you treat others the way you treated me you are going to turn them away from you and they will not listen to you no matter how smart you are and no matter how much you know.

Kipchoge "only" run 120 miles per week. Very interesting. I'm doing it wrong with 150 miles per week.

A basic overview...

1. Long run at quality effort but not even marathon pace (it is not really a "tempo")

2. Doubles even after a long run

3. Two workouts a week with at least two days inbetween.

This is a break down of these weeks...

Day 1- Long run at moderate pace

Day 2-

Day 3- Intensity

Day 4-

Day 5-

Day 6- Intensity

Day 7-

This is not that unique. He is just an amazing talent that gets the work in.

Coacherman wrote:

In his weeks of about 190k, he does about 60-70k of quality running (35%), but that's only if we count his Thursday long run as quality. It's like 2 workouts of about 15k of running at 10k to marathon pace and then a long run of 30-40k at 30-40 seconds per mile slower than marathon pace. If we don't count the long runs, it's more like 15%.

You definitely have to count the long runs as quality running. Even 3:30'/k on this terrain at that altitude... It's hard work and not easy chill pace.

What I found pretty interesting is the easily overseen quality on those "easy" days. A 70' half marathon before breakfast on a Monday morning isn't exactly a jog especially when you consider they start the first k at like 8:00-mile pace. The training sounds insanely hard to me and I believe many posters here think it is "easier" because they have never been to Kenya.

Those repeats on the track are insane, too. I know people who ran world class 3k indoors a couple weeks later who did 8 x 1k at 3:00 - 2:50 with 400 jog up there as endurance session and were proud of it, haha.... Now Kipchoge does twice the volume with shorter rest and at faster paces and goes on to bang out a 40k tempo run two days later. Then a fartlek at basically the same pace or close to Tuesday again two days later. And on and on and on... But that's what I expected. You simply cannot compare a 2:02ish marathon runner even with 2:10 or 2:20ish folks. It's just another dimension.

Has it ever been determined whether or not this was/is legitimately Kipchoge's training regimen or if it's just something someone made up? If the latter, is there any reputable information on his actual training?