Booom - 58:40 in Copenhagen halfmarathon

rojo wrote:

Dancan System wrote:

2 of those 3 coached by Coach JS!

The magic grows!

Pardon my ignorance, but who is JS? We want names.

Well anyone quick Google search for DANCAN comes up with Jan Stensson.

You could try banning him but he will simply return as Stenssolin^2 or Stenssolin^3.

rojo wrote:

Dancan System wrote:

2 of those 3 coached by Coach JS!

The magic grows!

Pardon my ignorance, but who is JS? We want names.

He is an upcoming Swedish coach. His coaching results are crazy !

In a positive meaning.

2:49 for 1.1k would be 12:48 pace for 5000m, so my guess is that the distance to the finish was more like 1k at that point. Was the course short?

Or put it this way: Abraham Cheroben was just 10th at the World 10k, which was won in 26:49 by a guy with a pr of 26:44. This race is a good distance for 10k guys. Many do well at both events. For instance the world #1 and #2 are both 26:xx/58:xx guys. Would this then suggest that Cheroben is really a 26:30s guy or better? And then accordingly that the nine guys who beat him at World's were 26:20s guys or better? Something is wrong here, either the course distance, the gradient, the wind, or free rein on drugs. (and Cheroben also ran 58:48 three years ago in Lisbon, so I'm thinking the last one).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

rojo wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but who is JS? We want names.

Well anyone quick Google search for DANCAN comes up with Jan Stensson.

You could try banning him but he will simply return as Stenssolin^2 or Stenssolin^3.

Why try banning him? He is experienced and a great coach.We need that kind of competence on the boards.

asdfasd wrote:

2:49 for 1.1k would be 12:48 pace for 5000m, so my guess is that the distance to the finish was more like 1k at that point. Was the course short?

Or put it this way: Abraham Cheroben was just 10th at the World 10k, which was won in 26:49 by a guy with a pr of 26:44. This race is a good distance for 10k guys. Many do well at both events. For instance the world #1 and #2 are both 26:xx/58:xx guys. Would this then suggest that Cheroben is really a 26:30s guy or better? And then accordingly that the nine guys who beat him at World's were 26:20s guys or better? Something is wrong here, either the course distance, the gradient, the wind, or free rein on drugs. (and Cheroben also ran 58:48 three years ago in Lisbon, so I'm thinking the last one).

My take on your post is that you believe humans are static and without ability to change(that includes having a bad race). Nothing could be further from the truth from that. I also take it that you have put the few athletes you are discussing in isolation and taken it to represent all runners.

Just take a different sample and you will no doubt see the "light". Some runners are better suited for road running than track running and vice versa. Leonard Komon is better at roads (and cross country) than on track(26:44 10K WR, 26:55 on track 10K), Paul Tanue is better on track than on roads(26:49 on 10K track and several bronze medals and olympic silver, 62 minutes for half marathon). So to answer your questions, Cheroben is actually better on the roads than on the track. You therefore cannot bring up what happened on the track.

Ryan Hall would have went sub 58 clean!

calculo wrote:

if you can run 13s faster over last 1.1km than a guy who once ran just 17s quicker after nearly an hour of running, this means the pace to 20k was far , far, far too slow for this guy

the winner couda gone 58'00 - 58'10 if it had much faster pacing from the gun

this guy coudn't carry karoke or tanui's jockstrap let alone be allowed in same room as Kamwo's !!!

it really just shows how really p!ss weak 58'23 is if those 3 took a serious shot at it on such a course with top, top quality pacers ...

Stop, the splits were fairly even w/ a fast finish

How tf are you going to take off 30-40 seconds with better pacing?

Karoki and Kamworor have run plenty of HM's and haven't come close to the record

Jepchirchir's HM of 64:52 was 4x more poorly paced than this race, how fast do you think she can go, sub 64?

You make all these outlandish statements with nothing to back them up

The distance from the spot marked 20K to the finish line couldn't have been 1.1 kilometers.

If Chebooboo or whatever his name is ran 13:58 (838 seconds) from 15K to 20K, he must've run the 500 meters headin' into the 20K split in 83 seconds or so. That would pin his last 1600 meters at close to 4:12. Does anyone think even the most wild-eyed rovin' pharmacies are closin' half-marathons with sub-4:15 miles off an already quick pace?

no

tadesse had very good kick from long way out such as 1km out

he didn't have great 400m-out kick but nearly all guys looked slow in that department when running against kennster

his speciality was to try to break the opposition in last 3 or 4km in a 10k & he nearly did so to the kennster in that epic wc in '09 when close to wr shape

his 26'37pb in '06 was poor reward for his efforts

a race with mediocre pacing when tadesse steaming afterwards indicating he was looking for a 26'20 - 26'25 clocking but pacing inadequate & he even got outsprinted !

however, his pace in his 58'23 was so fast for last 10.1k that he coudn't muster any kick, no matter how much your speciality is upping pace in last 3 or 4km in a 10k or longer run

no

the winner is no known kicker & i'd say even inferior to tadesse in a last lap, evidenced by being blown away in recent 10k in london

his fantastic kick in copenhagen was because to him, the pace to to 20k had been execrably slow, meaning guy had huge amount left in tank for last 1.1k

no chance

it wouda been hugely slower

it is akin to exaggerated example of an elite miler running 3'50 off splits of 60/2'00/3'00 meaning 50s last quarter

to believe that this guy woudn't have run far far quicker than 3'50 off say 57/1'54/2'51 or even mediocre 58/1'56/2'54 is beyond absurd ???!!!

no

see example of miler above

the winner was capable flat-out of ~ 58'00 - 58'10 & 2nd & 3rd somewhere between 58'20 - 58'30

no

because he was running flat-out for something like last 10.1k

if he'd been offered rubbish evenish pace of 55'51 at 20k he too wouda had a kick but no way the level of a 2'49 this guy did

eh ???

it is hugely extraordinary

it means 55'51 to 20k had taken very little out of them & they couda coped with a hugely faster split at that point

no

1st 5k on for wr, the later splits were long way outside of wr pace

no

the winner certainly woud have, the other 2 wouda been 50/50 to get it

Doped up nobodies. They would have been useful in Berlin for pacemaking.

I've run the race both years with the new course. The last 1.1 k are not downhill (net 4m up, basically completely flat). Conditions were pretty much perfect on Sunday and the course is about as flat and fast as they come.

eh ???

why not 0.8km or 1.2km ???

what is your logic ?!

assuming it is same course that held the WC in '14, the most prestigious 1/2M of all, the answer is emphatic NO

no

winner has 26'46pb

i hope you seriously don't believe winner was only in 26'46 - 26'49 shape in london off splits of ~ 13'34/13'15, pretty much speeding up in last 5k ???

quite clearly cheroben ran very poorly in london

it's a big range

somewhere in 26'30 - 26'45 range woud look about right

top 3 or 4 guys in london certainly in 26'20 - 26'30 & that doesn't include guys like Kamwo who hasn't run well in well over a year despite x-country gold this year

eh ???

absolutely nothing wrong with course

to hold the iaaf wc on it in the past means it has the highest credentials of any course

what can be deduced is that Cheroben is a very, very good /2-M'er, in wr shape given fast enough pacing

he may not be as good at 10k as 1/2M but woud still expect something in 26'30 - 26'45 range if he ran his perfect race at even pace

also, you can make no assumption whatsoever that if you are elite at 10k you are automatically entitled to eliteness at 1/2M

now, i don't normally like to estimate road times as unknown how quick relative to track but i'm pretty confident that on a track, Cheroben's current shape is between

54.00 / 1'52.25

->

3'37.70

7'31.33

12'51.79 !!

26'36.70 !!!

58'09.37 !!!

to

53.75 / 1'51.75

->

3'36.76

7'29.45

12'48.66 !!

26'30.45 !!!

57'56.18 !!!

the interest is his 10k shape & it is likely probably in the 26'30 - 26'35 range using above model

he seriously underperforms in track 10ks but that can be said for anyone not called mo in past 6y

if posters don't believe this guy is in above shape, i suggest you look up guy called tergat, who once held the 1/2M wr at 59-low, whose pb Cheroben has destroyed & what that guy's 3k/5k/10k pbs were...

no

they weren't

do the math

1st 5k at wr pace then subsequent splits drifting towards 58-high/59-flat with monsta last 1.1k

those re not even splits but better than usual

for the winner, the splits from 5 - 20k were execrably slow

learn some logic/analysis

if off 55'51 you can finish with 2'49 which is 54'08 pace !!!, you have to find a faster 20k split where the last 1.1k is run at the same pace as to 20k

it certainly won't be 55'40 or even 55'30

it is exaggerated example of a 3'50 run off 60/2'00/3'00 & then 50 last 1/4

what speed-up to 3/4 when the last 1/4 is run at same pace as previous 3 laps ???

experience & using a specific calculator tells me Cheroben on a track wouda been looking at ~ 58-flat

eh ??

i suggest you look up the pacing for their best runs

tell me if they ever got smooth ~

13'45

27'30

41'15

54'59 ???

in his 58'54pb when just a pup, he got atrocious splits :

11'25 for 4k !!!??? which is = 14'16 pace

then

14'05

28'13

42'15

56'03

execrably slow splits to 20k & all this as a pup of 20y

Kamwo has never been given the fast pace needed

then go to cardiff last year when falling at the start, sprinting madly to catch up he ran near 59-flat in worst conditions ever seen in a major road race !!!

what do you think he wouda run that day in ideal weather & no fall ???

what on earth does this have to do with the men ???

if she can go 64-flat, that just shows how incredibly p!ss-weak women's 1/2M times have been in the past until few years back

similar to men's situation but not to that extent

58'23 is a p!ss-weak time

this record shoud be ~ 57'30 - 57'45 given a perfect race for a few of current top guys

laughable

do you know anything about the sport ?

58'23 has stood on borrowed time for at least 4y but the elite guys just haven't been offered quality enough pacing to 10k & fields too stacked, degenerating into usual woeful tactical affairs

tadesse when he ran 58'23 had no live opposition unlike most of major 1/2M nowdays, when elites go into their shell from 10 - 20k

calculo wrote:

experience & using a specific calculator tells me Cheroben on a track wouda been looking at ~ 58-flat

⤴😂

58'23 is a p!ss-weak time↔😂

this record shoud be ~ 57'30 - 57'45 given a perfect race for a few of current top guys⤴only in a stadium.

You make all these outlandish statements with nothing to back them up

✔

laughable 😂

do you know anything about the sport ?😂

Very few runners tested regularly can run (or are capable of) under 59 for the half and they are names we all know: Bekele, Kipchoge, Farah, Kamworor certainly not untested unknowns.

exactly

great post

i woud like to point out that clearly Komon was in peak career shape in his 26'44WR in '10 but unfortunately not run a track 10k that year

he seriously was no way in this shape when setting his 26'55pb in '11

he had already run 26'57 !! in '08 when 5k SB was 13'17 ?!?!, albeit had run 13'04 in '06 at 18y !!!

if he'd run 26'57 over 2y before his 26'44WR, you can safely assume that in that road 10k he was hugely better than his then 26'57pb having matured from 13'04 at 18y & 26'57 at 20y to assumed peak at 22y

when canova is next here, we can ask him for insight into that 26'44WR

as for Tanui, he hasn't transitioned from 10k to 1/2M

it's a big step-up & not guaranteed at all if he will make it

10k may be by far his best distance

as for Cheroben, he really has disappointed on the track, but that is same for everyone not called mo in past 10y

worth noting, fastest 10k on track run by a Kenyan this decade is a 26'43 by a total nobody in rotich in brussels '11 frightening the life out of kennster from 600 out !!! with rupp break-thruing in 26'48

if such a nobody can run 26'43, then some quality Kenyans shoud make mince-meat of that if running their best 10k

the race in CPH was not tactical. Learn to analyze and use words correctly.

3 men sub 59.

7 men sub 60.

10 men sub 60.20.

That's what a stacked AND talented and ambitious and mostly young field does for times. Copenhagen is emerging as the world leading HM, and it's no coincidence it's run one week before Berlin, under similar conditions, giving its runners a chance to prove they can hit peak this time of year.

Expect to see some of these guys in Berlin for the full distance (or at least as pacers) in 2018. ;-)

yyy wrote:

the race in CPH was not tactical. Learn to analyze and use words correctly.

eh??? is this a yoke?