Do D3 Recruits need to be able to score at Conference immediately?

No. Obviously. A time to shoot for.

sc_hs_runner wrote:

I emailed a relatively top caliber D3 program's coach, and he responded with a time that he said would score at conference. I'm a junior in high school, why would I need to be able to score right away? Is there no development? This is a academically renowned school.

A"top caliber" D3 program does want to help their athletes develop. They want them to develop from conference scorers to national qualifiers to national scorers.

Raise your expectations, go be that guy.

Generally no. There are no athletic scholarships offered at D3. A coach may have a limited budget for recruiting visits and they may have limited open spots on the team, but those are the only real constraints to walking on the team. If you don't get help with a recruiting visit from the coach, you can visit on your own dime. If you don't get some clear guidance about walking on the team then you can and should clarify that before enrolling. You can ask an admissions officer for help with this as a back-up idea.

I think I know what school you are talking about... This coach might be stating that they aren't going to spend time/effort recruiting you unless you have met that time.

This would NOT mean you can't be on the team, but if this is an academically renowned school, said coach might be thinking you'd like to use your recruitment as backing for your application.

Any coach has a limit to what they want to actually spend their time recruiting. This doesn't mean they wouldn't have you on the team. It's just tricky.

/Former D3 coach

It just seemed a little unrealistic for that level of D3, especially not taking into account any development. If I can score at conference as a junior in high school, doesn't that mean you're too good for it?

PDong wrote:

I think I know what school you are talking about... This coach might be stating that they aren't going to spend time/effort recruiting you unless you have met that time.

This would NOT mean you can't be on the team, but if this is an academically renowned school, said coach might be thinking you'd like to use your recruitment as backing for your application.

Any coach has a limit to what they want to actually spend their time recruiting. This doesn't mean they wouldn't have you on the team. It's just tricky.

/Former D3 coach

I think the coach is just letting you know what it takes to be a top competitor in his conference. Very few D3 programs turn runners away. It would give you something to aim for.

A) What was the time he listed?

B) What's your time or equivalent for that distance?

C) At D3 you usually choose the school based on its academics first, athletic teams second or third.

If you are using past years conference results as your guide, it may be misleading. Oftentimes the races at conference are tactical, and thus a bit slower than the true caliber of the runners. So even though the race is won in 4:18, the winner may actually be a 4:10 guy, and a similar statement can be made for the last place scorer.

sc_hs_runner wrote:

It just seemed a little unrealistic for that level of D3, especially not taking into account any development. If I can score at conference as a junior in high school, doesn't that mean you're too good for it?

Without knowing which conference this is, its hard to be exact, but if this is an elite, or sub-elite DIII program, they probably have 2 or maybe 3 scorers in every distance event at conference. Not even counting the 800, that's 4 events, or 8-12 athletes, meaning a conference scorer in track isn't necessarily even on the XC varsity team. If you're the 12 man on the XC roster as a freshmen, more than likely you aren't getting to Varsity until your junior year. Further, if your PR (not everyone is running PRs in a tactical conference meet) has you squeaking in for 8th place, you just scored 1 point for your team that probably scores 150-250 points overall at the conference meet. Keep that in perspective. In all but the most elite DIII conferences, a low level All-Conference finisher as a freshmen is also not very likely to make the jump to a podium position or score at the regional level, much less make a national meet without well above average year-on-year progression. If this really is an elite program, someone who isn't likely to score past their conference meet isn't an athlete that will contribute to that team being elite.

Most DIII schools are only a few coaches overseeing very large rosters. There aren't many programs with operations directors or recruiting coordinators (especially that don't also wear 5 other hats at the same time). I found it very easy to get bogged down in my first few years trying to speak extensively with anyone with even the slightest glimmer of potential, when I've had much more success keeping recruiting efforts focused more on those athletes who will more definitively have a meaningful impact on the program.

Assuming this school's conference is like ours, if a junior who MIGHT develop into an 8th place conference scorer as a freshmen is going to get a (largely pre-written) reply from me thanking them for their interest, an explanation of what it takes to 'walk on' to the team and that they would likely have little problem performance wise with that, some (reasonable) goals for their junior year track season in order to be recruited over the summer and fall, and briefly try to answer whatever other questions they might have. At least in my situation, there's no way to go in depth with every half-decent athlete that shows interest and give them a full recruiting push, while at the same time plan and implement practice, manage travel arrangements, scheduling, meet entries, home meet hosting, ensure my current roster is where it needs to be academically/personally, etc, etc. unless I'm doing 70+ hour work weeks. Every coach has to draw a line in recruiting somewhere.

"This is A academically renowned school."?

Maybe academics, and not running, is why he's not interested in you.

If it is a high academic school, the coach may only have a small number of athletes they can "support". This doesn't mean financial; it means they can prioritize you for admittance. So yes, they might use those on athletes who can contribute right away.

He is probably just giving you some perspective of the level of competition. Really about anyone can run D3. Not many teams cut guys, but it is on a different level than high school.

It's a D3 school, so no it does not matter, as there are no athletic scholarships.

You'll get e-mails and letters and maybe phone calls from DIII coaches if you can't contribute right away. But for a home visit or something like that, yeah, they're probably looking for an immediate contributor. The budgets are low at these colleges and the pay for the head coaches is pretty low too. How many home visits are they making a year? Five or six? They're not doing that for a kid who could MAYBE be a conference scorer down the line. Unless the program is awful or they have a roster minimum in their contract.

Way over analytical. It's D3, not the Diamond League!

I saw that as soon as I submitted; I figured it wasn't relevant to a question about running. I'm ranked #2 in my class, and I had a 98th percentile SAT my sophomore year.

An grammar error wrote:

"This is A academically renowned school."?

Maybe academics, and not running, is why he's not interested in you.

sc_hs_runner wrote:

I emailed a relatively top caliber D3 program's coach, and he responded with a time that he said would score at conference. I'm a junior in high school, why would I need to be able to score right away? Is there no development? This is a academically renowned school.

In what context did he give you the time needed to score at conference? If this is a top DIII program, he is probably just trying to give you an idea of the level of competition at his school at hint that you aren't towards the top right now. Most good DIII's want kids that can immediately at least score at conference, but won't turn away developmental kids as long as they are easy to work with and don't mind starting towards the bottom of the team and working their way up. It also may have just been a pre-scripted email sent to slower kids that email him due to the large volume of emails he probably receives. Most DIII teams have roster minimums so they will not turn you away. I would ask the coach what it takes to make his team if that was not stated in his email to you.

*stipe wrote:

If it is a high academic school, the coach may only have a small number of athletes they can "support". This doesn't mean financial; it means they can prioritize you for admittance. So yes, they might use those on athletes who can contribute right away.

This is probably correct. D3 coaches at academically selective schools typically have the ability to get a certain number of applications pulled out of the general (strictly academic) pool. It's not guaranteed admission, but it makes a huge difference at some schools.

It's also much harder to get "help"at these schools as a distance runner. Coaches know they can get good runners anyway, because distance runners typically get good grades. They often will choose to expend their capital in other events. Also admissions knows that runners get good grades, so they're sometimes less willing to help an XC coach than a football coach because they know that the football program would fold if it weren't for seriously relaxed admissions standards (at many schools, anyway).

From what you said, it sounds like he just showed you the times it will take to score at conference. That's useful information; I don't see that it has any relation to recruiting. It's Diii, you can run there if you want to.