Why do elite runners see chiropractors if they have been proven full of it by medical associations?

Crack your Back wrote:

sdaf wrote:

What's wrong with a physiotherapist? They offer physical manipulations AND employ evidence-based practices.

FWIW I have had a torn disc in my lumbar spine with accompanying sciatica. Never saw a chiro, just went to a good physio. No pain pills either.

So a physio who uses" physical adjustment" exactly the same as a chiropractic adjustment is radically different?

I have no idea what kind of adjustments chiropractors do. I do know what kind of manipulations physical therapists perform, and I know they look superficially similar to chiro adjustments. The reason for a physical therapist to use a spinal manipulation is not to adjust or re-align the spine, or to move bones. It's typically used for short term pain relief. The exact mechanism is unknown, but the strongest evidence points to altered neurophysiological responses to noxious stimuli. If pain relief is achieved with a manipulation, the patient is better able to tolerate exercise and other therapy during the session. Good PTs also don't perform spinal manipulations on every patient who comes in with back pain. There are well established clinical prediction rules which give likelihood ratios for positive responses to spinal manipulation.

Also, Bad Wigins is an idiot who doesn't know anything about anything, especially healthcare. Just wanted to add that.

I have a chiro I see frequently. I go for ART, graston, and dry needling. He does adjust my hips at the end but it seems like a formality more than anything else.

He specialiZes in endurance athletes and golfers. But, I do know that most chiros are quite different.

Devil Dog wrote:

I had a back injury so bad I couldn't walk for two weeks. Doctors couldn't do anything for me but offer pills. Three visits to the local chiropractor and I felt better than I had in 15 years.

Worked for me too.

Lower back stenosis had me limping full time.

Spine doc offered medications which did nothing, and said surgery was a possibility.

Finally, I went to the local chiro. After reviewing my MRI he said he thought he could have me feeling better in 3-5 visits, plus an occasional tuneup session.

3 sessions later i was walking around with no limp.

A session or two a year of decompression has kept me in good shape for 5 years.

Beat me to this response.

A physiotherapist uses combinations of manual therapy and strengthening/ROM exercises that aim to address a specific physical problem.

In my case, I had a torn/bulging lumbar disc which was impinging on my sciatic nerve in such a way that I could not move one leg properly. The physiotherapist did some manual therapy with the aim of loosening the back muscles and ligaments that were in spasm near the injury site to encourage the bulging disc to go back to its normal position. I was later prescribed strengthening exercises to address what caused the injury in the first place, as well as some neurological retraining exercises to assist me regain normal motion patterns in the leg that was affected by the sciatica.

Some chiropractors would likely have done this as well. Chiropractors could be okay as a whole if they just marketed themselves as physiotherapists who specialize in back/spine problems. The trouble is that many do not and that their education is full of anti-science dogma, and many offer treatment options that have no validity or are harmful. Their education is also much less rigorous than a physiotherapist, at least in my country. A DC gets a 1-2 year college course (no undergrad required), whereas a licensed physiotherapist must complete an undergrad degree in kin/medical science, then pursue a 2 year master's degree program (plus internships/licensing stuff). It is also quite difficult to get into the physio grad program in my country (similar difficulty as med school), so physios are typically top students. Can't say the same for chiros.

Most chiropractic schools require a bachelors degree. Then its 4 years of school.

I keep going around until someone gets me back on my feet. I don't care whether they're a doctor, chiro, physio, therapist, ARTist, masseuse, shaman or that scary Chinese qi-gong lady behind the coin-op.

Albanyrunner wrote:

Most chiropractic schools require a bachelors degree. Then its 4 years of school.

It's not 4 years, try 3.

I was married to a Chiropractic student. I liked her, obviously, but she wasn't all that bright and she really had a passion for chiropractic because of a close family member. At the time I didn't know much about chiropractic, but when she started school I read up and the more I learned the more I got a sinking feeling in my stomach that the school was taking us for 6 figures and not offering anything in return.

I visited the school several times during those 3 years and I hung out with most of her chiropractic class socially. Trust me, these were not doctors and they weren't learning medical knowledge. None of them met the criteria for medical school in the first place. It was much more akin to a theology program with an emphasis on marketing. Hell, they gave you a $5k tuition discount for signing up at your school visit - how many medical schools do that?

Consider the source 2.0 wrote:

I think I'm going to trust the doctors in this one.

and the dentist wrote:

You get sick and one day you will get really sick. Then you will see a doctor.

The more doctors you see, the sicker you'll be, and the sooner you'll die.

Just because elite runners do something doesn't men that thing is best, right, or even advisable.

You've got that backwards wrote:

and the dentist wrote:

You get sick and one day you will get really sick. Then you will see a doctor.

The more doctors you see, the sicker you'll be, and the sooner you'll die.

That's because you should have seen one earlier before things got bad.

I recently had a life threatening infection. One doc visit and I was fine.

First sentence of last paragraph describes George Young's experience with chiropractic:

http://www.racingpast.ca/john_contents.php?id=300

My daughter is a chiro. She saved one of her patients from having a caesarean by flipping the baby into the correct position. Has since seen the baby and got her over some constipation.

There are plenty of good doctors, but...

Some contrary examples:

- An older lady who lived down the street kept getting foot surgeries and recovering back to her starting point (i.e. never improving as a result of the surgery). I talked to her about and she said her doctor had 3 more planned.

- I had a 70 year-old running friend in fine condition (still putting in an occasional 100 mile week at that age) but the doctors told her she had a hernia or something. They killed her in surgery.

- My wife took care of an 80-something woman. Doctors decided they needed to operate on her to make some money. She never healed from the surgery and died within a couple of weeks.

- The first doctor my wife and I had one time gave her someone else's prescription. She later x-rayed me without a lead protective apron. I never went back.

- The next doctor examined me when I had congested ears. He said "There's no evidence of infection, but just in case..." and decided to prescribe "a powerful antibiotic". I asked if there were any side effects and he said "nothing to worry about". I researched it (Fluoroquinolone) and found that it can cause ruptured tendons up to a year after a single use.

In particular, if you are old and live in the United States, watch out because there are plenty of people who will try to take advantage of you, doctors included.

and the dentist wrote:

You get sick and one day you will get really sick. Then you will see a doctor.

You've got that backwards wrote:

The more doctors you see, the sicker you'll be, and the sooner you'll die.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

see a doctor wrote:

The people who can tell you what good health is and how to achieve it are also called doctors.

For example I went to my doctor and he said " You are healthy".

Exactamundo.

I went to a running doctor with a sore knee and after examining me he said, "run more it's good for you." That worked for about 20 years. The only knee injury I have from running was when I fell GOING UPHILL during the winter time. Even that would have been okay had I taken a couple weeks off.

Now it's a permanent injury that I rarely feel. It never stopped me from running.

Soft tissue injuries have at times.

You realize you just stated exactly what I said on page 1, right? Idiot.

Pain relief is palliative. The medical profession has no interest in identifying and treating the actual condition causing the pain.

Quacksroo wrote:

Why do elite runners see chiropractors if they have been proven full of it by medical associations?

I don't know why each runner sees his/her chiropractor, but if you think that chiropractors are full of it then you're a fool. I had a serious neck injury (unrelated to running) that was fixed exclusively through chiropractic adjustments.

AndyDufresne43 wrote:

Trust me, these were not doctors and they weren't learning medical knowledge. None of them met the criteria for medical school in the first place. It was much more akin to a theology program with an emphasis on marketing. Hell, they gave you a $5k tuition discount for signing up at your school visit - how many medical schools do that?

This is an example of the sort of dogma that plagues medical school thinking. As a runner who has suffered many injuries (and who has paid lots of money to health care professionals to try and resolve my injuries) I do not care whether a health care practitioner I pay to see has "medical" knowledge or any other kind of knowledge. What I care about is whether that person has the ability to accurately diagnose and help me overcome (through manipulations, massage or stretching/strengthening exercises, orthotics etc ) my running injury.

In the case of medical doctors who advertise themselves as sports medicine physicians, most of them who I have encountered do not have this ability. I have even had an MD telling me that my medial foot arch pain caused by tibialis posterior tendinopathy was plantar fasciitis! As for chiropractors, physiotherapists etc, some are bad and some are good – there is probably the same distribution of incompetence/competence as there is among sports medicine physicians. I have had a very good experience with one chiropractor who corrected a twisted L5 vertebra which was giving me debilitating referred pain in the sacroiliac/hip region and tibialis anterior muscle ultimately causing loss of coordination in the leg. Had I gone the standard medical route to try and resolve the problem I would have probably been looking at endless expensive scans and possibly surgery with no guarantee of success and perhaps even ending up more debilitated (and poorer) than I was in the first place.

My advice to any injured runner is to research the heck out of your injury before going to any health professional for help (MD, chiropractor, podiatrist etc). At least then you will be developing your own knowledge base to guide your understanding as to whether the health care professional you are visiting is actually competent.

fact is, MDs refer to chiropractors as well as physical therapists. Physical therapists are doing joint manipulations now too. The concept of chiropractic is no less solid than medicine. How many mesh recalls, class action suits etc do we need after stuff has been "proven" by research to show that medicine is NOT based on science? That it is a medical practice, just as chiropractic is also practice and PT at PT practice?

OP sounds like a disgruntled doctor who is tired of losing business to other people or is a student currently being brain washed, or a troll who thinks trashing chiropractors will get a lot of responses.