Link between mental illness and endurance athletes who don't let go?

Endurance sports in general are a safe haven for addictive personalities who switch from drugs to running/tri/whatever. Lots of body/eating issues hidden in all that training time for some. It's a better choice in some ways. In other ways, not much changes.

At the same time, there are many people who do endurance sports because it's a joyful thing.

If you stick around long enough, it's easy to sort one out from the other and choose friends accordingly.

I am a mental health provider and I WISH more of my clients were runners, or that they would exercise at all. Most of those diagnosed with major depressive disorder and anxiety spectrum disorders do not exercise at all, and research has shown almost universally that exercise is correlated with more positive outcomes for those with depression and anxiety.

The OP might have arrived at running with pre-existing issues, found temporary solace in running, and then got burned out, or found that running did not solve those issues for them. That does not mean that the OP made a mistake to attend to their physical well being, but instead that they needed some sort of assistance for their issues all along, likely through counseling of some sort. A good counselor or psychologist would likely decouple their now-negative feelings about exercise from their other problems, and work with them to reframe, such that they could use running/exercise as a tool in their lives.

If I could turn most of my clients into consistent runners/exercisers, I'd probably have far fewer clients.

Then maybe you should fine a way to help them...i.e. Find their deep insecurities through non-conventional approach....take them out for a walk(outdoors is non-threatening vs sitting in a closed room)--have them discuss their insecurities then continue to pick up the pace as they will too. Small baby steps and eventually you will see that you might've helped a patient/client get through one insecurity at a time. Be creative in your work field if you truly want to help...

Yoga personalities are the weirdest in my experience. While I agree that some addictive and OCD types are drawn to running I also see them drawn to weight lifting. Anything that is individual and quantifiable. My experience is that those who chose yoga as the primary exercise have the most issues affecting their day to day functioning.

You'd be surprised how many clients do not want to be seen in public walking with a stranger. Depending on the size of the town and proximity to the client's home neighborhood, it can be anxiety-provoking for them to walk with a therapist for fear of others learning about their therapy. Still, going for a walk, for those who are willing, is a great way to go in therapy and I'm an advocate of doing so. Unfortunately, many/most therapists are not exercisers themselves, don't see the inherent value of exercise and so do not promote something as simple as moving one's body for systemic benefit.

Yourallmental wrote:

runners who were prior drug addicts

I'm trying to put this one together. I know runners who used to be drug addicts - in other words, "runners who were drug addicts" or "runners who are prior drug addicts."

But runners who were "prior drug addicts" now are something else, by the OP's wording. What would that be? "Current drug addicts" is about all that seems to logically fit.

Yourallmental wrote:

If you don't believe me look it up. And I'm talking peer reviewed research from both sides.

I'd like to see more on this one too. What are the "two sides" involved in this research? One would obviously be the psychological/psychiatric community. But if there is another, why would anyone care about its conclusions? And if "both sides" have peer-reviewed research backing them up, doesn't that mean that nothing's been settled yet, and that the validity of the OP's thesis remains to be clarified?

I think this goes far beyond running or any competitive endurance sport. IMO anyone who is slightly competitive, a bit obsessive, and has had problems in their life of whatever sort, will gravitate towards certain activities that will make he, feel good, give a identity to hold onto. It is something they desperately cling onto. You can see that perhaps even more evidently in the bodybuilding and powerlifting community. Just go on YouTube and look at all those fitness channels, and despite whatever life advice these "all natural " studs tell you, how do you think they will deal with it if all the suddden they had lost their strength, muscles, and of course, actually go off steroids.

It's become very trendy to write about how running has positive benefits to mental health. "Mental health runs" have popped up to help fight the stigma which surrounds mental illness.

This does nothing to fight the stigma that all runners are crazy. Rather it may be strengtning the association in the minds of non-runner.

Still, I've never met a serious runner that didn't also have some serious issues.

Stigma Freud wrote:

Still, I've never met a serious runner that didn't also have some serious issues.

What's your basis for making that judgement? Do you have some sort of training or qualification? It seems that there are two of us posting on this thread who are mental health professionals and neither of us have observed anything of the kind.

HRE wrote:

What's your basis for making that judgement? Do you have some sort of training or qualification? It seems that there are two of us posting on this thread who are mental health professionals and neither of us have observed anything of the kind.

Yeah, I have met a number of highly successful runners who wouldn't qualify as psychologically unusual, unless you resort to boot-strapping and define anyone who runs 120+ miles a week for any reason as "obsessive." It's easy to look at the more colorful or volatile characters in the sport, and at the prevalence of eating disorders, and at the depression that some runners are prone to either before they ever start or when they can't run anymore or run fast anymore, and lump every elite into a "weirdo" category.

But really, this kind of mental response is common to all areas in which people seek and achieve excellence. If you were once great at something and are no longer great at it thanks to ravages of age, physical damage, or other factors, then it's natural to be depressed about this. In fact I'd venture than anyone who is not disturbed at least a little but is the one who is "crazy." Who the hell wants to stop being excellent?

A lot of runners are smart, generally driven people who have plenty to fall back on if it doesn't work out as planned in running, or when running is in the past. They turn to coaching or administrative roles in the sport, or they apply their drive and brains to endeavors outside running entirely. We're generally not talking about football player types with degrees in basket weaving or human communications (if that) and low IQs.

The OP sounds like someone whose only identity has been as a successful runner and now has nothing in his or her life to speak of. This would be obvious enough just from the content and style of the first post, but the claim to have taken refuge in religion later on cements it. There are, again, plenty of sane religious believers out there but it's the loonies who always turn to this widely sanctioned mass delusions for the first time as adults because this brand of belief can at as a drug. (There's a runner from the 80s who jumped off a bridge in the middle of the NCAA finals in the 10K out of sheer pressure who survived but ended up in a wheelchair. She found peace through God as I understand the story but the God discovery is a mere convenience, and one I would not discourage that person from having if it helps her.)

to each their own wrote:

Yoga personalities are the weirdest in my experience. While I agree that some addictive and OCD types are drawn to running I also see them drawn to weight lifting. Anything that is individual and quantifiable. My experience is that those who chose yoga as the primary exercise have the most issues affecting their day to day functioning.

Exactly.

I had a few problems with puny human bullies in high school.

For example:

Shy, bullied high school student Carrie White experiences her first period as she showers with other girls after gym class. Unaware of what is happening to her, she panics and pleads for help. The other girls respond by pelting her with tampons, laughing and chanting "Plug it up! Plug it up!" Gym teacher Miss Collins breaks up the commotion and attempts to console Carrie. A light bulb mysteriously breaks as Carrie reaches the height of her panic.

Later, the school principal seems uncomfortable as Miss Collins expresses bewilderment that Carrie is so uninformed. As he dismisses Carrie from school for the afternoon, she becomes frustrated at both cigarette smoke emanating from an ashtray, and the principal repeatedly referring to her by the name "Cassie", causing the ashtray to flip from his desk and shatter. On her way home, a young boy teases Carrie, and she makes him fall off his bicycle with just a look. At home, Carrie is abused by her fanatically religious mother, Margaret, who rants about menstruation being the result of sinful thoughts. Carrie is locked in a small closet and forced to pray for forgiveness. When she is finally allowed to return to her room, she gazes into her reflection, causing the mirror to shatter.

Carrie's classmate Sue feels guilty, so she arranges for her boyfriend, handsome and popular Tommy, to ask Carrie to the upcoming prom. Reluctant at first, Carrie accepts after encouragement from Miss Collins. Another classmate, Chris, throws a tantrum and skips her detention for bullying Carrie, so she is banned from the prom. Swearing vengeance, she recruits her delinquent boyfriend Billy to play a prank on Carrie. They slaughter pigs from a nearby farm and place a bucket of their blood above the stage at the school’s gymnasium.

Margaret discovers Carrie's prom plans and attempts to abuse her again. Having researched her telekinesis, Carrie asserts her power and stands up to her mother. Margaret responds by accusing Carrie of being a satanic witch.

At the prom, Carrie finds acceptance among her peers and shares a kiss with Tommy. Chris's friend Norma rigs the election and Carrie is crowned Prom Queen. Carrie’s joy is cut short when Chris pulls a rope to dump the pigs' blood on her. Chris and Billy escape through a back door, while the bucket falls on Tommy's head, knocking him unconscious. The blood-soaked Carrie hallucinates that everyone in the gymnasium is laughing at her and soon unleashes telekinetic fury upon the crowd, guilty and innocent alike. The doors slam shut, a high-pressure water hose assaults many people (including Norma, who is knocked unconscious), the principal is electrocuted, and Miss Collins is crushed to death. As the gym catches fire, Carrie calmly walks out and locks the remaining students inside. Chris and Billy attempt to run over Carrie as she walks home, but Carrie causes their car to flip and explode.

At home, Carrie is comforted by her mother, who strokes her daughter's hair as she tenderly comforts her in her arms; revealing her guilt about having conceived Carrie through her only act of sexual intercourse with Carrie's drunken father, which she had in part enjoyed. As they pray together, Margaret stabs her daughter in the back and pursues her through the house. Defending herself, Carrie causes kitchen utensils to fly through the air and crucify Margaret. Distraught over her mother's death, Carrie loses control of her powers as the house crumbles and burns down around her.

Sometime after Carrie’s death, Sue, the sole survivor of the prom massacre, is seen laying flowers on the charred remains of Carrie's home beside a vandalized For Sale sign saying "Carrie White burns in Hell!".

Just then, a bloody arm reaches from the rubble and grabs her, causing Sue to wake up from her nightmare screaming.

(1976_film)

Who won the David Torrence Mile race?

The Scot CHRIS O'Hare won the DT Mile.

Chris is a member of the Flagstaff Runner Teamâ„¢...with the Kiwi Nick Willis...and David Torrence...and Dr. Jack Daniels (born 1933)...and...

Stigma Freud wrote:

It's become very trendy to write about how running has positive benefits to mental health. "Mental health runs" have popped up to help fight the stigma which surrounds mental illness.

This does nothing to fight the stigma that all runners are crazy. Rather it may be strengtning the association in the minds of non-runner.

Still, I've never met a serious runner that didn't also have some serious issues.

This was trendy in the 70s. Look up "Positive Addiction".

I have anger under control now...most of the time.

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I think that I will take a nice and easy SkyRun® with 10,000 ft. of altitude gain to relax:

“SkyRunning” has been around for some time. Hundreds, even thousands of years ago mountains were negotiated out of necessity: war, religious persecution, hunting, smuggling, or just out of plain old curiosity. The concept of running up and down mountains for fun is much newer. Take for example the Ben Nevis Race which goes back to 1903, or the Pikes Peak Marathon which began as a bet in 1954 among smokers and non smokers.

The idea of creating a sports discipline however was the brainchild of Italian mountaineer Marino Giacometti, who, with a handful of fellow climbers, pioneered records and races on Mont Blanc and Monte Rosa in the Italian Alps in the early ‘90’s. In 1993, with the support of the multinational Fila as sponsor, skyrunning took off across the world’s mountain ranges with a circuit of awe inspiring races stretching from the Himalayas to the Rockies, from Mount Kenya to the Mexican volcanoes. After all, Giacometti’s term SkyRunning, as the name suggests, is where earth and sky meet.

SkyRunner®, SkyRace®, SkyMarathon®, Vertical Kilometer® are registered trademarks.

http://aravaiparunning.com/network/flagstaff/

It is just a Coincidental Synchronicityâ„¢.

I got to believe Ron Hill is a classic obsessive compulsive with his 50 year run streak.

I think that is true for all obsessed people whether it is running, studying, work or whatever. The really super dedictated people are not the most mentally healthy ones however some of them are also the people who change the world for the better or worse. I mean michael Jordan probably isn't the most mentally balanced person either.

Normal people want to be somewhat good in what they do and otherwise enjoy their time and do a lot of different things like family, rec activities, some work and other stuff.they are not lazy but they don't spend 12 hours a day to become the best ever.

I do believe that guys like ted Williams, Michael Jordan or Emil zatopek probably are not the most easy personalities to deal with and they had some holes in their self worth they tried to fill with their quest to become the best ever. But then again those guys also changed the history. Same is true for many top scientists, a mentally normal person wouldn't spend 100 hours a week to research something.

AuntBee wrote:

I got to believe Ron Hill is a classic obsessive compulsive with his 50 year run streak.

And it's your privilege to do so but there is absolutely no diagnostic criteria that allows that to be anything other than your own opinion.

HRE wrote:

AuntBee wrote:

I got to believe Ron Hill is a classic obsessive compulsive with his 50 year run streak.

And it's your privilege to do so but there is absolutely no diagnostic criteria that allows that to be anything other than your own opinion.

If you don't think running every single day for 50 years is OC then you need some diagnostics yourself.

Are you the type of person that needs a study to confirm that you have a nose on your face?

You're obviously one of the many ignorant shitposters who uses the adjectives "obsessive" and "compulsive" and the clinical term "obsessive-compulsive" interchangeably.

Ron Hill was by definition obsessive and compulsive compared to most people, because he trained like a world-class marathoner. After his streak reached a certain point, however, his motivation to keep it alive assumed a certain momentum of its own. Without knowledge of his own streak, it is highly unlikely that Hill would have run on every one of those days out of a sheer uncontained drive to get out the door.

OCD people persist in rituals that bother them and that they wish they could let go of. Hill had a streak and loved the challenge of keeping it going. Not every day was a joy, of course, but do you see the difference?

You're obviously can't recognize the simple distinction between calling for the proper application of diagnostic criteria and demanding a formal study to confirm something simple.

John utah wrote:

HRE wrote:

And it's your privilege to do so but there is absolutely no diagnostic criteria that allows that to be anything other than your own opinion.

If you don't think running every single day for 50 years is OC then you need some diagnostics yourself.

Are you the type of person that needs a study to confirm that you have a nose on your face?

No, I don't need any diagnostics myself. I'm the sort of person who worked in mental health centers and taught grad students who were looking to have careers as counselors for many years, all of which requires a lot of familiarity with the process of diagnosing mental disorders. Ron does not come anywhere close to meeting any sort of diagnostic criteria for OCD.

A diagnosis cannot be made on the basis of a single behavior so you'd need more examples than simply going for a run each day for 52 years.On top of that, the behaviors need to affect a person's ability to function negatively. Ron earned a Ph.D in chemistry, worked as a chemist for many years before starting his own running shop and mail order business. He's been married for something close to sixty years and raised a family just as people who don't run every day for years do. Peple who know him, and I do a tiny bit, find him good company. Where in all of this do you see impairment of normal functioning?