BREAKING: Kate Grace joining BOWERMAN TC -- to by coached by Jerry Schumacher

Schumacher's training is geared to distances 5k and above and the steeple. Look what he's done with Houlihan and did with Lomong, Fernandez and Bayer, all former mid distance runners. Perhaps Grace is moving up. One thing we know is her 800 days are over and, likely, her 1500 days. Pretty sure BTC has never qualified a runner for a major championship in an event below the steeple. Not a criticism, just seems clear that it's a strength based program that trades mid distance speed for endurance. Sure they can run a good 1500 off that training, but Jager and Hill have shown they can't kick with the top 1500 guys in the US, let alone the world.

Rowbury is an entirely different case. When an athlete moves to NOP the implicit understanding is that you follow the 'program' there. Unless the rules have changed, BTC does not imply illicit training methods.

Kate's 1500m PR is slower than Shelby's and only marginally faster than Colleen's. I don't think she'll be on an island.

Diggety Dawg wrote:

Had he ever coached a steepler before Jager? It's the coach, not the distance.

I'd argue a better saying is "It's the athlete not the coach" but agree with your sentiment, if you are a good coach and understand the sport and the human body, you should be able to coach all events.

The coaches that only are good at one event don't really understand the sport/physiology. They just sort of lucked into a system that they repeat over and over. Frauds in my opinion.

As for whether Jerry has coached any 800/1500 runners, what does that matter? Do people not remember that Jerry was a 3:39 guy himself.

Regardless, quigley and grace both have 403 1500 pbs.

When I started at Cornell, these boards were full of people saying, "JK's training is only good for the 10k. They'll be good at that but suck at mid-d." First 5 years at cornell all we had was mid-d. 1500, DMRs, 4 x 800s. NExt 2-3 years our strength was 10k/5k/steeple. Your strength is where you have the talent to coach.

kate is an 8 wrote:

Schumacher's training is geared to distances 5k and above and the steeple. Look what he's done with Houlihan and did with Lomong, Fernandez and Bayer, all former mid distance runners. Perhaps Grace is moving up. One thing we know is her 800 days are over and, likely, her 1500 days. Pretty sure BTC has never qualified a runner for a major championship in an event below the steeple. Not a criticism, just seems clear that it's a strength based program that trades mid distance speed for endurance. Sure they can run a good 1500 off that training, but Jager and Hill have shown they can't kick with the top 1500 guys in the US, let alone the world.

Would you count Ahmed's 4th in Rio? What about London? Hill's World Indoor silver?

Why are you talking? wrote:

kate is an 8 wrote:

Schumacher's training is geared to distances 5k and above and the steeple. Look what he's done with Houlihan and did with Lomong, Fernandez and Bayer, all former mid distance runners. Perhaps Grace is moving up. One thing we know is her 800 days are over and, likely, her 1500 days. Pretty sure BTC has never qualified a runner for a major championship in an event below the steeple. Not a criticism, just seems clear that it's a strength based program that trades mid distance speed for endurance. Sure they can run a good 1500 off that training, but Jager and Hill have shown they can't kick with the top 1500 guys in the US, let alone the world.

Would you count Ahmed's 4th in Rio? What about London? Hill's World Indoor silver?

It was specifically in reference to preformance at mid distance events. Neither guy has ever sniffed a 1500 medal, let alone qualified.

She can get better. Look at Shelby Houlihan. This is a good move.

Why are you talking? wrote:

kate is an 8 wrote:

Schumacher's training is geared to distances 5k and above and the steeple. Look what he's done with Houlihan and did with Lomong, Fernandez and Bayer, all former mid distance runners. Perhaps Grace is moving up. One thing we know is her 800 days are over and, likely, her 1500 days. Pretty sure BTC has never qualified a runner for a major championship in an event below the steeple. Not a criticism, just seems clear that it's a strength based program that trades mid distance speed for endurance. Sure they can run a good 1500 off that training, but Jager and Hill have shown they can't kick with the top 1500 guys in the US, let alone the world.

Would you count Ahmed's 4th in Rio? What about London? Hill's World Indoor silver?

I'm honestly asking. I realize 5k is longer than 3k steeple; but it seems that both are pretty equal.

kate is an 8 wrote:

Why are you talking? wrote:

Would you count Ahmed's 4th in Rio? What about London? Hill's World Indoor silver?

It was specifically in reference to preformance at mid distance events. Neither guy has ever sniffed a 1500 medal, let alone qualified.

Fair enough, though I'm not sure anyone besides lomong has ever attempted it. Has houlihan? Jager's 3:32 isn't too bad...

Diggety Dawg wrote:

Had he ever coached a steepler before Jager? It's the coach, not the distance.

Schumacher coached steeplers at Wisco and his assistant is Pascal Dobert, a former Olympic and WC steepler for the U.S.

specific knowledge wrote:

Diggety Dawg wrote:

Had he ever coached a steepler before Jager? It's the coach, not the distance.

Schumacher coached steeplers at Wisco and his assistant is Pascal Dobert, a former Olympic and WC steepler for the U.S.

But didn't coach 1500m guys?

The Crystal Ball knows ALL wrote:

Despite pundits earlier hypothesizing about her joining the Oregon Project in Portland, Grace has moved to the Rose City to join Bowerman TC.

She will be coached by the only legitimate professional distance coach in America, Jerry Schumacher.

THIS IS FACT. And will be confirmed via running dork media outlets shortly.

Another scoop and win for the World Famous LRC message boards!

Just playing devil's 😈 advocate

It's not to hard to make the Case the Salazar is the greatest Coach on Earth. Great at many distances. 2016 Rio 1500 Gold 5k Gold 10k Gold Marathon Bronze.

Badgerific wrote:

specific knowledge wrote:

Schumacher coached steeplers at Wisco and his assistant is Pascal Dobert, a former Olympic and WC steepler for the U.S.

But didn't coach 1500m guys?

He was the head coach at Wisco. He coached everybody. He was a 1500m guy himself when he competed.

It's the athlete, not the coach is 50% correct. Jerry can certainly prepare athletes for success. He doesn't have a record of 800/1500m success at the national championship or world level, so Kate will bring a new challenge.

Kate obviously makes up the other half of the equation. She is well traveled and has now worked with a variety of coaches. If she remains adaptable to different training systems she can still improve, but it's also silly to make a distinction between athletes hiring coaches rather than being coached. Jerry will absolutely do things his way, not the Kate Grace way, if there is such a thing.

Kate disappeared from the racing scene after Worlds this summer. In truth, she disappeared after USA's, but she was in London, so we'll count it. Hopefully she can get over whatever took her off course and hit it on the indoor circuit!

Sheese. All those L.A. kids are arm twisted and forced move to cheap/rundown outoftheway places to be able to afford to run even if they are world class. That's how pathetic our sport is.

Running nomad

It could work out fine for Grace. I hope so. Then you have the case of Alan Webb, who in the latter stages of his career tried Salazar, Vigilante and Schumacher, none of whom could resurrect his career. He might have been better off staying with his high school coach. Patience was never his strong suit, though.

"Perfectly reasonable" move, sure, although clearly dictated by Nike. Riskless, not at all. There's no doubt that choosing an incompatible coach, even if they've had good results with other athletes, can hurt or not help an athlete's career. The three coaches above with Webb, all of whom have good track records. Simpson early in her career with Henner. Roesler has basically wasted three crucial years of her career with Monday or whoever's coaching her now.

Why are you talking? wrote:

kate is an 8 wrote:

It was specifically in reference to preformance at mid distance events. Neither guy has ever sniffed a 1500 medal, let alone qualified.

Fair enough, though I'm not sure anyone besides lomong has ever attempted it. Has houlihan? Jager's 3:32 isn't too bad...

In 2014, Houlihan finished 7th in the 800m at nationals. In 2015 she finished 10th in the 1500m. In 2016 she made the US team at 5k. Jager can run a good TIME at 1500m, but he can't RACE a championship 1500m because he lacks the kick. That is why he made the move up to the steeple and obviously has had great success.

BTC has not had any major championship qualifiers in the distances of 800/1500 that Grace runs. This could be because the program is geared towards distance events. It could also be that they formerly chose only athletes that are better suited for distance events, but that's kind of saying the same thing. A third option is that the coaches are just bad at preparing athletes to compete in championship level mid distance events, but I don't think that is the argument that's being made. Regardless, we can point to the fact that their athletes choose not to compete in either the 800/1500 at outdoor US nationals.