Having watched Paul Chelimo compete at UNCG, I have to disagree. The guy was clearly a stud from day one and everyone knew he had a huge upside. The guy came from total obscurity and seemed to get dramatically better in every race, dominating everything in sight. The shocker was not that he became as good as he is now, but that it didn't happen sooner.
Bill Rodgers of Wellsley
Frank Shorter of Yale
Jeff Galloway of Wellsley
Nick Arciniaga
Ed Spinney, ran 4:10 mile in college and then with Athletics West ran 3:38 and 3:58.
What about Hillary Bor? His best out of College was 8:35. Although, it's not "slow", it is 9 seconds slower than Jakob for example. His best is now 8:11, which is clearly world class.
jfhdhwbwhidd wrote:
WhamBam wrote:Hey. I may have spoken too soon. This guy may challenge Colby for top honors. Ford Palmer. Played football in high school. Didn't run. Took up running in college at Monmouth. Not really a running powerhouse. Ran 4:00 and 3:44 in college but that doesn't get you much these days in D1. But think about it, having never run before and within a few years he was already knocking on the sub 4 door. So he had talent. He hooked up with Coach Gags and NJNY TC after college and now boasts a 3:36 PR for 1500 and he just ran a 3:54 mile this past indoor season. In 2014 he was 5th in the 1500 at the USATF Outdoor Champioships. Not bad for a High School football player!!
This is not true..Ford was a solid high school runner
I heard he didn't run cross in HS. Played FB. That's unusual right there. A former football guy turns into a 3:36/3:54 guy. That's off the charts unusual. Looks like a former FB guy too. Not your typical distance/ Mid-distance build.
The #1 example IMO of a lousy college runner who made good is Ron Daws, who ran at the U of Minnesota in the late 1950s but wasn't even good enough to travel with the team to away meets. In fact he quit the track team his senior year IIRC.
Daws's college bests were 4:30 for 1 mile, 9:43 for 2 miles, and 15:22 for 3 miles (not even 5K distance).
Daws graduates, decides to keep running because he loves it, but has no coach and no support. He gets married and works full-time, and runs in his spare time. During work breaks he runs on the building fire escape.
In 1964, at age 27, he finds a book by Arthur Lydiard, studies it, and ups his mileage to 100 mpw.
He can't find good running shoes so he makes his own shoes. He has no money so he builds a treadmill from spare parts.
At age 28 he sets American track records for 15 miles and 25K. (OK, odd records, but he did have them.)
In 1968 at age 31 Daws qualifies for the U.S. Olympic team by finishing 3rd in the marathon trials, in brutal heat at Alamosa, New Mexico, ahead of a slew of runners with better PRs. At Mexico City, Daws finishes 22nd out of 85 runners in the marathon. To him, that was the high point of his running career.
He also finished in the top 10 at Boston four times (4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th).
If you can find it, read his inspirational but scarce autobiography, "The Self-Made Olympian."
ck3237 wrote:
Bill Rodgers of Wellsley
Frank Shorter of Yale
Jeff Galloway of Wellsley
Shorter was NCAA 6-mile champion his senior year. Rodgers and Galloway ran for Wesleyan.
Ajee Wilson
Noah Droddy. Didn't do much in college at the D3 level. Yes, he was good, but not lighting it up like others mentioned in D2 or D3.
Morgan Uceny was nothing special in college but had a good run for about 5 years
Brittle Master 1958 wrote:
The #1 example IMO of a lousy college runner who made good is Ron Daws, who ran at the U of Minnesota in the late 1950s but wasn't even good enough to travel with the team to away meets. In fact he quit the track team his senior year IIRC.
Daws's college bests were 4:30 for 1 mile, 9:43 for 2 miles, and 15:22 for 3 miles (not even 5K distance).
Daws graduates, decides to keep running because he loves it, but has no coach and no support. He gets married and works full-time, and runs in his spare time. During work breaks he runs on the building fire escape.
In 1964, at age 27, he finds a book by Arthur Lydiard, studies it, and ups his mileage to 100 mpw.
He can't find good running shoes so he makes his own shoes. He has no money so he builds a treadmill from spare parts.
At age 28 he sets American track records for 15 miles and 25K. (OK, odd records, but he did have them.)
In 1968 at age 31 Daws qualifies for the U.S. Olympic team by finishing 3rd in the marathon trials, in brutal heat at Alamosa, New Mexico, ahead of a slew of runners with better PRs. At Mexico City, Daws finishes 22nd out of 85 runners in the marathon. To him, that was the high point of his running career.
He also finished in the top 10 at Boston four times (4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th).
If you can find it, read his inspirational but scarce autobiography, "The Self-Made Olympian."
And "On the Wings of Mercury".
Drew Hunter was never a good college runner.
I don't toe in wrote:
ck3237 wrote:Bill Rodgers of Wellsley Frank Shorter of Yale Jeff Galloway of Wellsley
Shorter was NCAA 6-mile champion his senior year. Rodgers and Galloway ran for Wesleyan.
Shorter ran that shocking 6 miler at the very end of his Yale career. As a student, he lost regularly to Harvard runners who you have never heard of.
Palmer ran 1:52 as a high school senior (1:54 as a soph).
AlmostHome wrote:
Palmer ran 1:52 as a high school senior (1:54 as a soph).
Those are good high school times but certainly not predictive of a future 3:54 mile! HS 1:52 half milers are pretty common nationally. Milers in the 3:54 mile are very uncommon.
Ssseeeddss wrote:
What about Hillary Bor? His best out of College was 8:35. Although, it's not "slow", it is 9 seconds slower than Jakob for example. His best is now 8:11, which is clearly world class.
Curious how he got a lot better once he joined ADP. He medaled all 4 years at NCAAs, just never won. Some okay race results for a while then ADP turned him around.
Willie Nilly wrote:
AlmostHome wrote:Palmer ran 1:52 as a high school senior (1:54 as a soph).
Those are good high school times but certainly not predictive of a future 3:54 mile! HS 1:52 half milers are pretty common nationally. Milers in the 3:54 mile are very uncommon.
About 60 to 70 U.S. hs runners go 1:52 or faster in the last few years.
About 20 U.S. runners do 3:54 or an equivalent 1500 per year.
So yes, definitely the 800m time is more common, although not wildly in different levels of common as you suggest.
But, I suspect they are a similar level of quality despite the H.S. 1:52 being 3x as common. My reasoning is that about 2 in 3 top high school runners don't see their career all the way through 4 or 5 + years post college, which is what it takes most runners to reach their peak 1500/mile fitness.
sarah vaughan
Brian Sell
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Ryan Eiler, 3rd American man at Boston, almost out of nowhere