75% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck

Why would you tithe? Buy something nice for yourself instead. Or put it in an index fund for your kids.

fica taxes

income taxes

property taxes

sales taxes

mandatory health insurance

Most essential expenses are NOT tax deductible.

These are the reasons we have nothing left to save. The government is ravaging our lives.

Flagpole wrote:

Sayer of hi wrote:

Hi Flagpole!

Not me. WEJO, DO AN IP CHECK, AND IF I LIE, BAN ME FOR LIFE!!!!!!!

Here's how you know it isn't me:

1) I don't have a car loan.

2) I don't have a mortgage (own the house).

3) My wife and I are not both public educators.

4) Our parents are well into their 70s, not just 60.

5) Out parents never gifted us $5000 in furniture.

6) We do not tithe.

7) Neither of us were scholarship athletes (my wife wasn't an athlete, and I was D3).

8) I eat meat more than 3 days a week.

9) I don't live in the south.

10) We don't have time limits on showers in the Flagpole household.

11) We make more than they do.

Believe it or not, but I'm not the only person here interested in personal finance.

Ummm . . . how difficult would it be to post as OP with made up numbers and details?

Sheesh!

F UCK the government wrote:

fica taxes

income taxes

property taxes

sales taxes

mandatory health insurance

Most essential expenses are NOT tax deductible.

These are the reasons we have nothing left to save. The government is ravaging our lives.

Out of 34 OECD members (basically the only countries in the world that you might want to live in) the USA ranks as 24th in total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Further, the average household net adjusted disposable income (after taxes) per capita in the US is the highest in the OECD. Finally, the US average household net financial wealth per capita is also the highest figure in the OECD.

Yeah, our lives are totally ravaged! That rapacious government! LOL

Whoa is me!

10% is a lot of money wrote:

Why would you tithe? Buy something nice for yourself instead. Or put it in an index fund for your kids.

None of your damned business what he chooses to do with his money.

I read a few months ago that around 75% of the U.S. population could not come up with $2000 in an emergency within 48 hours including friends, family, or themselves. That's scary to me.

Rent and car payments are the reason many people live paycheck to paycheck. The rent in California is ridiculous. I pay $2k/month!!!! I can afford it b/c I'm a baller, but I don't know how all my neighbors afford it.

Here is one article on the subject - 40% percent could not afford an unexpected $ 500 expense. I chuckled when the article said $500 or $1000 unplanned expense as of course if you could not afford $500 you could not afford something greater than $500.

This is why most people who live paycheck to paycheck do so:

Too much money spent, relative to income, on cell phones, cable TV, beer, cigarettes, eating out, vacations, cars, clothes, housing. And of course buying just plain junk that they don't need.

Buying things on credit so money spent simply on interest payments.

Poor career choices and refusal to take the steps necessary to improve one's skills and knowledge.

Are there exceptions? Yes. But they are exceptions, and not the rule. The vast majority of people in America could get out of debt and better their financial lives if they were willing to make the right choices.

Ummm . . . Man wrote:

F UCK the government wrote:

fica taxes

income taxes

property taxes

sales taxes

mandatory health insurance

Most essential expenses are NOT tax deductible.

These are the reasons we have nothing left to save. The government is ravaging our lives.

Out of 34 OECD members (basically the only countries in the world that you might want to live in) the USA ranks as 24th in total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Further, the average household net adjusted disposable income (after taxes) per capita in the US is the highest in the OECD. Finally, the US average household net financial wealth per capita is also the highest figure in the OECD.

Yeah, our lives are totally ravaged! That rapacious government! LOL

Whoa is me!

please don't present objective criteria. It gets them all emotional.

And to the prior poster, do you agree that the government shouldn't ravage the lives of big city liberal elites by forcing them to subsidize the cleaup in Texas?

Ummm . . . Man wrote:

F UCK the government wrote:

fica taxes

income taxes

property taxes

sales taxes

mandatory health insurance

Most essential expenses are NOT tax deductible.

These are the reasons we have nothing left to save. The government is ravaging our lives.

Out of 34 OECD members (basically the only countries in the world that you might want to live in) the USA ranks as 24th in total tax burden as a percentage of income.

Further, the average household net adjusted disposable income (after taxes) per capita in the US is the highest in the OECD. Finally, the US average household net financial wealth per capita is also the highest figure in the OECD.

Yeah, our lives are totally ravaged! That rapacious government! LOL

Whoa is me!

And that government takes all that limited tax money and uses it on totally worthless crap like overseas military expenditures.

Most of those countries with higher taxes have WAY higher quality of life and WAY more "happiness".

We have abysmal health care, little higher education opportunities, stagnant social reform, etc.

Our country sucks. A lot. I'd live in one of those countries with higher taxes in a flash if I could get the work visas.

How people make decisions to manage their personal life can be baffling for the 25% who do save. There are hundreds of scenarios we can all share, but for those like myself who has young adult children out on their own you see it play out. Mine did well to pick up the self reliant aspect of getting out on their own, but really have little future plans on how to set themselves up for a better financial future. We still encourage education and to help pay, but this has been hit or miss the past 6 years. It appears being young is to be cherished and acted on over an extended period of time. In my day if you went to school you had 4-5 years and then you got on with life. Today it seems like that period of time has doubled for some. In my eyes the result for many is you live paycheck to paycheck until you catch up. For many that is difficult to achieve.

I was hoping for some actual data not a stupid poll and some bore fest of a dude's personal financial situation.

All the money is in the hands of a few uber rich psychopaths at the top of the economic pyramid.

As others have mentioned, most households don't have 2 college educated adults working. I work in a large warehouse where the majority of employees make $10 an hour. We aren't the highest paying job in our area, but we do pay much more than fast food, grocery stores, and places like Dollar General, and slightly more than retail stores. There are certainly some employees, particularly the younger ones, who blow their money each paycheck. Usually they spend it on alcohol, concerts, sometimes on drugs, eating out every meal, getting their nails and hair done, and fast fashion (clothes that are cheap to buy but only last a few wears).

Most of our employees are much more careful, but still live paycheck to paycheck or have minimal savings. Their highest expenses are rent, supporting family members who don't or can't work, and sometimes medical bills.

The really terrible apartments and trailer parks in town aren't any cheaper than the middle tier apartments, but they're on the bus routes and don't require things like deposits and credit checks. There's nothing cheaper in town, and they can't move out to the rural counties where there are no jobs and no transportation, so the poor end up paying a disproportionate amount toward rent.

Lots of them are supporting parents, siblings, spouses, or adult children who don't work. Their family members may have disabilities, drug habits, previous convictions, or very low education levels that make it almost impossible for them to find and keep a job. $10 an hour doesn't go very far when it's supporting you, your children, and your parent.

There are also a surprising number who have student loans. A few got recruited by local private colleges who tell them that they can get lots of financial aid, and then they'll have well-paying careers that allow them to pay it back. Several were good athletes in high school and got recruited by private D3 football and basketball programs with the same sales pitch. Without strong high school educations and a good support system, they make it one year before dropping out with a mountain of loans and no better prospects. Many more of them get drawn in to the technical colleges and get degrees in things like massage therapy without understanding that it doesn't pay any better than we do, if you can even get a job in the over-saturated market.

It's easy to judge the poor and lower middle class, but I've worked side-by-side with thousands of people at my warehouse over the years, and most are really good people who have very hard lives.

Dave Ramsey fan wrote:

This is why most people who live paycheck to paycheck do so:

Too much money spent, relative to income, on cell phones, cable TV, beer, cigarettes, eating out, vacations, cars, clothes, housing. And of course buying just plain junk that they don't need.

Don't forget coffee. Seriously, I know people who spend $15 per day on coffee drinks -- same as a pack of smokes and some beers!

Dave Ramsey fan wrote:

This is why most people who live paycheck to paycheck do so:

Too much money spent, relative to income, on cell phones, cable TV, beer, cigarettes, eating out, vacations, cars, clothes, housing. And of course buying just plain junk that they don't need.

Buying things on credit so money spent simply on interest payments.

Poor career choices and refusal to take the steps necessary to improve one's skills and knowledge.

Are there exceptions? Yes. But they are exceptions, and not the rule. The vast majority of people in America could get out of debt and better their financial lives if they were willing to make the right choices.

Hi Flaggy!

Ummm . . . Man wrote:

10% is a lot of money wrote:

Why would you tithe? Buy something nice for yourself instead. Or put it in an index fund for your kids.

None of your damned business what he chooses to do with his money.

??

If you're talking about the OP, the guy literally started a pointless thread about exactly what he does with his money, and apparently questions are off the table? Get a grip.

That was a fair question, too, but if someone wants to flush a sizable portion of their income down the toilet then that's their choice. Especially for an archaic institution where knowledge is shunned and pedophilia is embraced.

Biotch.

The OP said he never had to pay student loans...and then wonders how people are living paycheck to paycheck.

I pay $1,170 per month for student loans, and another ~$250/month for credit card debt incurred because I needed money because I was paying student loans. I make about $1,600 per month. You do the math. I live with parents, I'm not saving, and even if I wanted to take on more debt to go back to college, no one is going to give me a loan at this point without a co-signer, and no one wants to co-sign for me. There are a LOT of people in similar situations.

Also, with a divorce rate of ~50%, you can expect that for every "family" with 2 parents, there's a single-parent house that has just as many expenses (rent/mortgage, kids, etc.), but only HALF the income the OP does.

Cost of living is WAY cheaper in the south. Like dirt-cheap compared to states like New York (my state).

It's funny the way OP floats "spending too much on Netflix" as something that makes a meaningful budget impact on an income comparable to his. For a paycheck-to-paycheck person, sure, it would, but for someone with OP's income it's a negligible cost, and highlights how clueless he is with perspective.

I refuse to believe that anyone can properly clean themselves with soap in 3 minutes. OP is dirty.

LOTS of people spend WAY too much on phones. This is a moderately high expense for some.

U.S. median household income is roughly $56,500 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Real_Household_Median_Income_thru_2014.png), or a little over $27/hour for a 2-parent household. But that means that each parent is making roughly $13.50 per hour...and every single person in the same office is making the same, but doesn't have another person to help pay for rent and utilities...and now you can begin to see the problem.

Cities and regions of inflated income will skew data drastically. I'll use New York State again as an example. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Map_of_states_by_median_household_income_in_2014.svg) The median household income is $60,000 to $65,000, which is around $30/hour if you use $62,500 for yearly. But keep in mind that New York City will drastically outweight everything else in the state. Case in point, it's difficult to find anything over $15/hr. in my area of the state. There are HUGE spanses of geographic regions that contain nearly as many people as those 1 or 2 big cities in a state, but where people make WAY less.

Last, but definitely not least, health insurance is KILLING a lot of people. For those with decent incomes (such as a friend of mine who is a mechanic and makes a variable wage but usually pulls $3,000 per month), they are just getting raked over the coals with health insurance costs. My mechanic friend referenced above has a wife and 4 kids, and pays over $300 / week for health insurance, or roughly $1,200 per month gone from that $3,000 -- and the $3,000 is before taxes. And his insurance costs are cheap -- another friend of mine drives trucks -- his health insurance costs were roughly $1,600 per month, and he only has 2 kids. And giving everyone free or reduced health insurance won't solve the problem; all it has done / will do is allow the health sector guaranteed income. When I had no health insurance the doctors would allow me to negotiate a cost. No one with insurance gets to do that, because the doctor knows he's guaranteed an certain minimum. Now let's take that mechanic friend of mine -- $3,000 minus $1,200 is $1,800, minus $700 on mortgage is $1,100 left, minus $100 on phone, minus $80 on Internet, minus $90 on water & sewage, minus ~$80 on electric, minus $120 on gasoline, minus $110 on heat leaves $520 to spread across an entire month for food, toiletries, other bills, etc. Stories like this are typical, even if the numbers vary. His wife has a part-time minimum wage job to help, but car payments and other forms of debt haven't even been discussed for this guy & his family yet.

Bottom line: OP is having trouble believing that he is WELL above the median, even if he is MILES from elite ("1%") income. This is a common affliction for those on LRC in general -- they're waaay beyond average, but because they're still significantly below elite, they have trouble believing how far above average they already are.