When Mo Farah was my age, all my PB's were better than his and I'm not very good.

asdghj wrote:

TAGAWIA wrote:

Yeah and 2 of them did not break 3:30. Educate yourself.

Neither Geb or Bekele were ever in race like Monaco. I'm sure they could have had faster 1500 PR's if that were a priority. But I will give you that Mo is a little faster than Geb and Bekele at 1500. But Geb and Bekele were way faster at 10,000 than Mo. I certainly believe that Mo was capable of a better 5000 PR than 12:53. But a 12:40 claim with certainty is ridiculous.

If you look at Mo's distance times (3k to the HM), they are all pretty much in line (well the 3k is a little slow) with what you would expect given the other times. A 12:53 guy running 59:30? Not really shocking. The 1500m is the outlier time. Seems like that the reason for that is that he has a better anaerobic system than guys like Bekele but he doesn't have the aerobic power they did.

asdfasdfa wrote:

asdghj wrote:

Neither Geb or Bekele were ever in race like Monaco. I'm sure they could have had faster 1500 PR's if that were a priority. But I will give you that Mo is a little faster than Geb and Bekele at 1500. But Geb and Bekele were way faster at 10,000 than Mo. I certainly believe that Mo was capable of a better 5000 PR than 12:53. But a 12:40 claim with certainty is ridiculous.

If you look at Mo's distance times (3k to the HM), they are all pretty much in line (well the 3k is a little slow) with what you would expect given the other times. A 12:53 guy running 59:30? Not really shocking. The 1500m is the outlier time. Seems like that the reason for that is that he has a better anaerobic system than guys like Bekele but he doesn't have the aerobic power they did.

Yeah EXCEPT when Mo won the 10000m recently he ran 26:49 with splits of 13:36 and 13:13 and this was a championship race. It seems obvious that if they had run more even pace that Mo could have run 13:20 and 13:20. Mo is also a bit past his prime. Consequently you have a man who ran 3:28 and 26:46 who clearly could run 26:40 at least. That is a man who could have run 12:40. Nobody else in history has run 3:28 and broken 27.

TAGAWIA wrote:

Yeah EXCEPT when Mo won the 10000m recently he ran 26:49 with splits of 13:36 and 13:13 and this was a championship race. It seems obvious that if they had run more even pace that Mo could have run 13:20 and 13:20. Mo is also a bit past his prime. Consequently you have a man who ran 3:28 and 26:46 who clearly could run 26:40 at least. That is a man who could have run 12:40. Nobody else in history has run 3:28 and broken 27.

Maybe. There are lots of guys who run PRs in what seem to be unoptimal ways but then never come close to their times. But look at the splits

4:20

4:21

4:22

4:20

4:17

4:14

That is 5 miles of pretty even pacing and then cranking it up for the last mile. That really isn't that far from optimal running. There were some surges in the middle but I haven't seen how closely Mo followed all of them

Nobody else has run sub 3:29 and run a 10k:). If you look at the sub 3:29 guys and their 5000m prs you will see they all run 12:50+. Maybe none of them ran races in their prime in great conditions. Maybe it is just hard to have sub 3:29 speed and the ability to run sub 12:50. It is easy to look at faste underdistance times and predict distance greatness. It doesn't always workout that way. Look at all the 28:00 min 10k guys with no kicks who can't break 2:12 in the marathon.

Farah finished 5th in the European junior cross country champs at the age of 16. He was a star from a young age, although he didn't improve much from the age of 16 until his breakthrough 5k race in Belgium at the age of 22.

I remember hearing stories from friends, after an athletics meet where Farah had underperformed that they saw him in a nightclub smoking, so can believe that when he was 22/23 he made a lifestyle change and improved because of this.

Like others I am sceptical of the improvements he made since he joined up with Salazar, but he was an exceptional junior, even though his track pbs at 20 don't necessarily indicate this.

I'm 52 but I can beat Mo running . . . . In my car

He ran 13-09 at 23

Placed 5th at WC 5000m at 24

There was potential to get very good

assuming this training was sub-par .

The circumstantial evidence indicates that he's doping too.

-hangs out with a doping crew

-the fancy bears leak

-long training stints away from testing

IAAF. wrote:

-hangs out with a doping crew

-the fancy bears leak

-long training stints away from testing

You make some valid points but Farah could easily dispute all of these. He has definitely associated with some shady characters, but everyone keeps pointing to Salazar? It has been established that AlSal will push to the very edge of what's LEGAL - USADA is investigating him over L-Carnitine drips, yes, L-CARNITINE drips - not EPO, steroids, or anything to actually enhance performance. At this point it's become a joke.

Fancy Bears Leak. Russian hackers, enough said. Zero credibility.

The training stints in Ethiopia do raise some eyebrows, but it's one of the few places you can get in quality training at 10,000 feet. Mo also spends time in France, Flagstaff, etc.

He may very well be doping - no one would be surprised if he is Lance Armstrong 2.0 - but you're gonna have to do better than what you laid out as "circumstantial evidence."

Trust me he was pissing about up until 22/23 or maybe slightly before. Alan didn't start coaching him until around then, hence the improvement and change in lifestyle. Before that he was coached by Conrad Milton who is a nice guy and decent club coach but that's what he is. The training would be fairly similar all year round, 3 sessions a week, not enough mileage, not much tempo running etc. No periodisation. If you go from that to 100 plus miles a week consistently with a better structure anyone would improve. Alan got him to a world class level this way and Salazar has made him the best by pushing the boundaries but also by making some tweaks to training. He seems to do way more gym / core and extra bits than he did before although I don't know exactly what he did in that regard.

I'm not saying he is or isn't doping but i don't think it's unimaginable that he could do it clean based on the talent level. I don't think there has ever been a time when lots of Brits beat him, he has had the odd defeat when not in shape but that's about it and normally on xc.

Everyone is saying that MO was not training right before his improvement but not one person has produced training logs. I don't think you can break 13 just screwing around. The biggest factor which makes me believe he is dirty is the improvement at the 1500 a much older age than your average runner.

DMulvee wrote:

Farah finished 5th in the European junior cross country champs at the age of 16.

This is not star material. European distance running is not impressive. Look at Ingebrigtsen--he demolishes European junior competition and even makes European senior teams. And I don't think he'll ever be a global champ.

DMulvee wrote:

I remember hearing stories from friends, after an athletics meet where Farah had underperformed that they saw him in a nightclub smoking, so can believe that when he was 22/23 he made a lifestyle change and improved because of this.

Sounds like an idiot. So you're saying the average intelligence, average talent hobby jogger who hops on LetsRun can get better training advice than this superstar youth/junior talent? Very sad if true, and I guess it's good he decided to turn things around, but I don't think anyone on my college team was so irresponsible.

@ wow idiots....

you're a fuking idiot, Mo got where he is because of hard work, he always makes his blood results available, Salazar just knows what the hell he's doing

When I am ensconced in the bedsheets my parents pay for and wash, I can be anything!

I have great Pr's!

I'm pretty!

My dog likes me!

I get b's....

I'll break 19:30 in XC this fall!

I'm a troll.

You mean Aden - and other characters - hooked him up.

Al Sal is under heavy scrutiny because he's in the US. Stories about Al and crew pop up every time news about the E. Africans and their cheating is about to hit.

Mo is likely an extreme responder to EPO, like Geb and KB and others. These people are 'found' because the people handling the runners are literally doping everyone and they find out just who responds best.

Because of political correctness it is going to be a long time before the sport is cleaned up. Remove drugs and the E. Africans still have a lot of top runners, but less than half of what we see on the track, and probably a third or less of what see on the roads.

Look at what happened to Aden so far. It's a joke. If that had been some White or Asian guy, they'd literally be in a dungeon.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Soprano wrote:

Just so everyone is on the same page, these are Mo Farah's PBs in 2003 (when he was 20) according to Tilastopaja.org:

800: 1:48.69

1500: 3:43.17

3000: 8:05.58 (indoors)

5000: 13:38.41

I'd take some of these times right now (hobby jogger alert).

I was sub 1:47 and very fast over the 400 as well. I won't post my times as I'm sure more than a few would figure out who I am. That said, of course Mo and a lot of others are doping. This is how he was able to get amazingly close to his PR in the 800 at the end of a 5k.

In the late 80's EVERYONE on the track and most in the media KNEW Gabriele Rosa was literally experimenting on the Kenyans with EPO. It was a joke then and the situation in E. Africa has become a bigger joke now. The Moroccans and Algerians who were excelling during the EPO era fell under heavy scrutiny because they aren't part of a protected group like other third world peoples who are allowed to dope with impunity. Like other people have noted, the reasons for this have little to do with the sport itself per se.

If you think this is bunk then step back and take a look at how officials in the US covered up for Carl Lewis and scores of other sprinters since King Carl's days. The only reason any sprinters or jumpers get busted at all are because someone was unable to step in and fix things for them, as is usually done. The stories this year alone regarding make-out sessions and tainted meat causing positive tests are among the silliest excuses yet, but they do provide a lot of laughs.

Maybe the days of hearing about herbal remedies causing positive tests will come back. Or more of the false positives like Bernie Lagat, a guy who enjoyed political protection from the day drugs took him from being a decent runner to a guy who couldn't run 1:47 clean or break 1:46 on drugs, to the second fastest clocking ever in the 1500 and medals at the WCs and Olympics. Bernie is a fraud.

All He Does Is Win wrote:

Lying OP wrote:

So OP is not very good???

OP you can run 1:48 and 13:38? And Farah's 8:05 indoor 3k was when he was just 19.

You can be as good as you like on the internet.

It's amusing how the denizens of this forum have absolutely no respect for a runner who can "only" achieve a ~13:30 5k, yet they will never believe somebody who claims they can run such a time, as it is too fast.

If Mo was clean and hadn't 'changed' he'd still have some of his original friends around him, many of them runners. He's pretty good at blanking people these days and living in the untouchable bubble provided by Seb and co.

kimani wrote:

DMulvee wrote:

Farah finished 5th in the European junior cross country champs at the age of 16.

This is not star material. European distance running is not impressive. Look at Ingebrigtsen--he demolishes European junior competition and even makes European senior teams. And I don't think he'll ever be a global champ.

DMulvee wrote:

I remember hearing stories from friends, after an athletics meet where Farah had underperformed that they saw him in a nightclub smoking, so can believe that when he was 22/23 he made a lifestyle change and improved because of this.

Sounds like an idiot. So you're saying the average intelligence, average talent hobby jogger who hops on LetsRun can get better training advice than this superstar youth/junior talent? Very sad if true, and I guess it's good he decided to turn things around, but I don't think anyone on my college team was so irresponsible.

I think he may have been undefeated at Under 15 and Under 17 1500/3000 on the track. At this stage he was winning most races very comfortably and wasn't training very much. I think the only person who beat him in a domestic race may have been Lee McCash at cross country. He hardly had any experience of competition before his 5th place at the European Juniors, so it's hard to know what his potential was at that point.

Also didn't he collapse in his early 20s - just after the finish of a disappointing performance (maybe again in the European Championships) and it was discovered he had some deficiencies (magnesium?)? (I have a recollection of seeing this clip and Brendan Foster talking about this just around the time he was making big improvements as a senior)

See this regarding collapsing and deficiencies:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/mar/26/mo-farah-world-cross-country-championships

It seems plausible that sorting out iron and magnesium deficiencies will lead to improvements

Rme wrote:

Everyone is saying that MO was not training right before his improvement but not one person has produced training logs. I don't think you can break 13 just screwing around. The biggest factor which makes me believe he is dirty is the improvement at the 1500 a much older age than your average runner.

The 3-28 is nearer a 3-29

Then add in the Monaco track and pacing from kiprop

I would like to know what cram really thought when his European record was taken,he did seem really surprised.