"Make your easier runs easier"

Those sprint times are strange. The general rule of thumb is that your 200 time should be about 2x your 100 time, and that your 400 time should be about 2x (1.1 x 200time). So your 200 & 400 line up, but relative to your 100 they're pretty slow. In addition, none of them are all that fast. I think you would benefit from higher mileage (Target 50-60 mpw as something to work up to.). If, while doing higher mileage, you find that you can only handle 3, or even only 2, non-easy days, then so be it. Work up to this slowly, across 1 - 2 months.

I'm slow like you wrote:

Those sprint times are strange. The general rule of thumb is that your 200 time should be about 2x your 100 time, and that your 400 time should be about 2x (1.1 x 200time). So your 200 & 400 line up, but relative to your 100 they're pretty slow. In addition, none of them are all that fast. I think you would benefit from higher mileage (Target 50-60 mpw as something to work up to.). If, while doing higher mileage, you find that you can only handle 3, or even only 2, non-easy days, then so be it. Work up to this slowly, across 1 - 2 months.

The wheels completely fall off at about 120m. My speed endurance is rubbish and cannot seem to improve it because no matter what training I take at the moment, my body feels tired and I get slower.

So you took 3 months off of running after feeling constantly run down and pretty wrecked during training, with only minimal cross training during that time and then almost immediately set a few substantial PRs after resuming training? This led you to decide to run higher volume than you ever have before and now you can't come close to those PRs anymore?

It's very strange to me that you would be at your best fitness after so much time off, and the only thing I can imagine is that you just don't have the capacity to really recover from and/or adapt to the training load you're able to put yourself through. Have you tried including scheduled down weeks or rest periods within your training? I can't recommend taking a month off for recovery (if you're that deep in the hole your training load is way too much) but maybe you would really benefit from taking periods of 7-10 days where you really dial things back and see if you don't regain some freshness.

Clearly your 5:20 mile and sub 20 5k were way short.

I happen to agree with HRE and Flagpole. (Hi, guys).

To me, in my most humble opinion, to do what you are doing 3 -4 non easy days needs to be backed up with legs under you. Meaning, nothing will replace miles of road work.

When I was doing hard easy, the hard days weren't necessarily fast days. Hills, doubles (in the beginning of y running) and time...meaning I start off covering two hours for a couple of months before I would run two hours with work in it. A two hour run could be anywhere from 13 miles to 20 miles...huge gap. But I had done the work and it all sorta felt the same in a way. Takes time.

Good on the bike, nice and easy spin for recovery.

Too much fast work without the buildup could lead you to overwhelming fatigue and/or injury. At times the body rebels and just doesn't want to work fast, hence why you need to bring it along and hand hold it. LOL.

When I had easy days. Easy days to me meant no effort, no push, just run easy. Now as to the pace, well, easy day pace would drop due t fitness level being raised. So on easy days...no clock. And hour run is an hour run> If I choose to run a course that takes me longer, I penned it in oon my log book as an hour run. It would only be the next hard day whether or not I fully recovered and then thing would be adjust, perhaps not so many sets.

If I was really dragging, (which wasn't too often) I would do a semblance of the workout...or take the whole workout off.

My thinking at the time for doing it this way. Do to racing, if I felt tired on race day, I still raced and carried on.

Good luck to you. I hope this helps.

In JOY,patti

Oops a daisy. I need to edit. 3-4 easy days change to 3,4 hard days first line.

Thank you.

Living in the Past wrote:

Live to run wrote:

Look up Steven Siegler's research when you're ready to advance to the next level.

Do you mean Stephen Seiler?

No, Steven Seagal.

scorpion_runner wrote:

All those amateurs wrote:

In the week of the race you would mostly do stuff that would help you maintain your intensity. You would do a speed session, and a few cruise tempos ( 3 x 6 - 7 mins) so that you don't lose speed.

You don`t lose speed in the week of the race!

The keyword in that week is recovery.

I disagree with this. Even during race week of a marathon runners will do a speed session ( monday or tuesday) and plenty of strides to keep the speed fine tuned( keyword). It does not go away during race week, but it can go flat.

They are called sharpening sessions. It's like a pencil. The pencil does not go away, but it can go dull, so you sharpen it before you began to write to make the writing easier.[/quote]

You are dealing with a real pro coach. My best marathoner is a 2.07 runner. The last week should only emphasizing recovery easy runs and jog.The workouts that really counts must have been done before.

fast and furious wrote:

No, Steven Seagal.

Run!

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Once I found out about that, my understanding of run training went to a greater level.

https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/

FriendlyLobo wrote:

Where did you get these numbers? Not necessarily doubting but wanting to do further research.

If it takes 3-4 weeks to get the benefit of a long run, why would you run a long run more than once every two weeks, at a minimum? Typically, no one has a problem waiting a week to let a vo2max or a tempo run "settle in", but the weekly long run is a staple in most training plans. Given this logic, isn't the weekly long run a recipe for overtraining?

wealthy industrialist wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Once I found out about that, my understanding of run training went to a greater level.

https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/

If it takes 3-4 weeks to get the benefit of a long run, why would you run a long run more than once every two weeks, at a minimum? Typically, no one has a problem waiting a week to let a vo2max or a tempo run "settle in", but the weekly long run is a staple in most training plans. Given this logic, isn't the weekly long run a recipe for overtraining?

I like this, stay in touch with LSD with a long cardio binge every two or three weeks , or more often when skipping workouts for some reason. I feel that if I can do it, I don't need to do it all the time. Just don't let endurance slip of the charts just like you don't let the ability to run fast get too far away.