What are Jerry Schumacher's training principles? Obviously they WORK

Giving post-injury Webb 143 miles a week is malpractice. Maybe this is why speed-based guys like Webb and German could never stay healthy with Jerry.

BTC Scrub wrote:

[quote]

I think you need to check your math. "Badger Miles" count all runs at 7min pace, except workouts which are counted at the actual distance. Let's say you run 110 "Badger Miles" a week and have 15 miles worth of workout miles. That leaves 665min of running. In order to get 125 miles in that time (and thus 140 for the week), you need to AVERAGE 5:20 pace (including on your warm ups and cool downs). I would say that the BTC guys average at least a minute slower than that for all running. If you're ever at Nike, they start quite slow. That would put total real mileage for the week at 120.

I don't think that Ahmed and Jager even run that much and certainly not as much as Bairu and Solinksy, but that's based on rumor. The math is not.

I don't get your math. If you have 110 Badger miles (=770 minutes right? 7 minutes/Badger mile x 110 Badger miles) and add 15 real miles in workouts, then for a group that averages 6:20 for the Badger miles, that will be more than 125 real miles. It is 121.6 miles (770 minutes/6.33 min/mile) + 15=136.6 miles.

hiistorian wrote:

Schumacher training sure didn't work for Bairu.

The fact Jerry couldn't coach Bairu to a decent marathon is pretty unimpressive.

Did jerry pick simon's parents?

An anecdote I always recall when Schumacher's training gets brought up is an interview with Vaughn after he joined the group. He said workouts were so hard he couldn't finish them when he first joined the group. It's hard to imagine someone who ran 13:18 under Wetmore saying that.

I'll bet Mottram any amount of money he wants he can't break 13 in 6 weeks time.

In a word, "Lydiard."

thisguy wrote:

They don't back away from training extremely hard and as an outsider it seems like it comes at the cost of a decent amount injuries - but that's unavoidable I suppose.

Can't believe it's taken so long for people to realize that this is the secret. You smash yourself in training and the best athletes are the ones who survive it. This is why the Africans are so good. 100 Kenyans kill themselves in training. 90 burnout or get injured and you are left with 10 world class runners.

European athletes have grossly undertrained for years

+10 for the handle

29% of Americans have a tattoo wrote:

In a word, "Lydiard."

Definitely not "Lydiard"

NietzschesDelight wrote:

29% of Americans have a tattoo wrote:

In a word, "Lydiard."

Definitely not "Lydiard"

If anything it would be one word "Canova"

You dont have to like Brad Hudson but in this video he gives a good explanation of Canova and non-linear periodization

The 15 workout miles are included in the 110 miles. So there are 95 badger miles left, which leaves 95 x 7 = 665 minutes of running.

If you want to get to 140 mpw, and have 15 miles of workouts already, then you need an additional 125 miles in those 665 minutes.

665 min / 125 miles = 5.32 --> 5:19 min/mi.

Thus, to get to 140 real "miles" with 110 Jerry miles, of which 15 are workout miles, you would have to run the remaining 125 miles at 5:19 min/mi pace.

How come you come in here and destroy all decent threads on training? All you do is promote yourself, and basically no one cares about your non-working philosophy

Total sham wrote:

hiistorian wrote:

Schumacher training sure didn't work for Bairu.

The fact Jerry couldn't coach Bairu to a decent marathon is pretty unimpressive.

Did jerry pick simon's parents?

Jerry coached Bairu to 2 NCAA cross championships. Check your facts.

Typically, Jerry has been pretty secretive of his training methods. If you dig around online you can find some insights.

Tegenkamp's training leading up to the 2007 World Championships:

https://books.google.com/books?id=FcYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=matt+tegenkamp+mileage&source=bl&ots=YqmgI44XXZ&sig=OTvva5GgVrdTEc0okmoDW5_Brqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir5eCiqejQAhVD62MKHQEcBBwQ6AEIRzAG#v=onepage&q=matt%20tegenkamp%20mileage&f=false

This was arguably Tegenkamp's most successful season. He ran his 1500 PR, 7:35 for 3k (just off his 7:34 3k PR from the year before), the still standing American record for two miles at 8:07.07 (faster than Rupp's indoor AR and faster equivalent than Teg's 7:34 3k), and finished 4th at the World Championships in Osaka in the 5k, missing a medal by .04 seconds. Jerry's training seems to have shifted a bit since this time. Longer workouts, higher mileage, greater intensity. In one video on Runnerspace, Pascal Dobert talks about them doing 8-10 miles worth of repeats on the grass in the form of miles, 2ks, and/or two mile repeats.

There are some great videos from the NXN Series at Runnerspace from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. I'd post the links but I keep getting flagged as spam.

A quick google search can find multiple articles about Sonlinsky's 120+ mile weeks and easy days at 5:30-5:45 pace. Now, the BTC guys typically start out slow and progress to around or below 6 minute pace on easy days. Girls seem to go a bit slower, comparatively (i.e. 7 min pace). Long runs are usually around 2 hours progressing pretty quickly on the back half.

Interview w/ Andy Bayer on some of their workouts:

http://indianarunner.com/featured-content/indianarunner-com-andy-bayer-feature

Emily Infeld's Training:

https://www.runnersworld.com/world-championships/how-emily-infeld-became-a-surprise-world-10k-medalist

https://www.runnersworld.com/olympic-trials/how-emily-infeld-cross-trained-her-way-to-the-olympics

https://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/emily-infields-roller-coaster-to-a-pro-career

https://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/new-pro-emily-infeld-adjusts-to-training-with-shalane-flanagan

Sample week of Colleen Quigley's Training:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPV1EFYA3be/?taken-by=steeple_squigs

Bonus Piece on Bideau's Training:

http://www.traq.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/bideauoncoaching.pdf

Bonus # 2 - A Little Bit of Training from Everybody:

https://elitetrainingnews.wordpress.com/page/3/

Damn, man. Thanks for that.

Can you at least say what to search on Runner's Space?

google one of his athletes name and "training" "workouts" "interview" "milage." that should get you there.

In 2010 Solinsky was heading out of the door at 5:30 pace. He was hitting 140+. Can't speak to the rest of the crew, but I'd be seeing the difference between a guy like solinsky doing everything at 5:30 or faster and logging 7s versus Shalane doing everything at 6:20 and logging 8 minute miles. Who gets f*cked harder?

Twinn wrote:

Google:

https://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/why-rhythm-runs-rule

This sounds like Malmo's "run to the barns" and other spontaneous tempo runs.

Old school back to back ,like the great Ted Haydon gave us, no secret for Rick wolhuter , I used mon-4-6 repeat miles, Tuesday 16-24x 220,s run one 28-30sec, jogg 60sec,run another never stop moving, run 24 of those , wed- 660-550-660-550-660-550 ,110 -220 jogg rest, or do in middle of track ,walk across do it again , Thursday 3.5 miles 10x 3oo-500yd hill- @ danryan woods, 3.5 miles home or walk and freeze, m,t,w,Friday am 3-6 miles,then 10x35yds cartires with work boots wrist , weights , weight train 4-5x a week ,no excuses when it's 25 below with wind chill streets lights dimming from cold , time to bring it drugfreeathletes.org