Madison Holleran Story

Makes me glad I'm average in a way...

But these stories always idolize beautiful people and elevate them even though we all struggle

I ordered this book and should receive tomorrow. I think it's an important story to tell with lessons for us all and for our culture in general, and it relates to my chosen profession (counseling). The only thing I worry about (before having read it mind you, so my concerns could very well end up being unfounded) is that it could, in a way, "glorify" for lack of a better word, the act. For most of us that's okay, but if the book were to fall into the hands of someone on the brink of going in that direction themselves, could the martyr-like tone of it be the impetus that finalized their decision? Maybe. Regardless, I think it's still an important story to be told.

Sunday Morning - every time I hear of this story, it brings me to a deep state of grief. So to me personally, nothing about this is glorified. But that is from my perspective. I am a guy in my mid 50's who came from an incredibly abusive environment, and made it out on my own due to a Division 1 track scholarship. I can deeply identify with the misery this young woman felt (although from the outside one would never know), and am grateful but either dumb luck or some sort of masochistic toughness I made it through. I could see how young people could think this is some sort of romantic way out. Of course, it is nothing of the sort, but I see your point.

Right after Madison passed, I googled her and found she was featured on Barstool Sports' "smokeshow of the day" or something like that. For those who don't know, it's a segment on this fratty college website that features attractive college girls and objectifies them. I've never seen anyone make mention of this, but I always wonder if the attention she received from this contributed. She was a college girl trying to adjust to new surroundings, pressures and demands, and here she was being objectified by all these creepy men on the internet. Who knows how much flack she took for this from her peers? Or maybe her female classmates were jealous and mean to her. I wonder if the book makes any mention of this.

Looks like her pictures have been taken down but here is the link:

http://www.barstoolsports.com/dont-use/barstool-nyc-local-smokeshow-of-the-day-madison-2/

While I appreciate the effort to raise awareness, why are these stories always focused on pretty white girls?

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

While I appreciate the effort to raise awareness, why are these stories always focused on pretty white girls?

Because I think logically people have trouble understanding why a highly educated, good looking, super athlete from a good family would take her own life. Suicide doesn't make sense but people really want it to make sense.

Everyone struggles in life and those that don't have looks, or athleticism or brains may think that if they had one of those things that life would be easier. Here is a young woman that seemingly had it all but it wasn't enough.

Actually - my take on this story was different. It highlighted a struggle that many young college kids face. Especially those who have "excelled" in high school for one reason or another and had expectations set for them by others as a result. And thanks to social media, this problem is only getting worse as some try to mask everything through their "online lives" versus their real lives.

In high school, those who have done well at academics/athletics receive adulation, attention, praise, and with repeated excellence, comes the expectation from those around the student that this is the norm. This puts a lot of pressure on a person. Especially if the person was very popular in high school and gets this from a wide variety of people.

Unfortunately, some are going to get to college and struggle emotionally when they try to maintain their 'status' or whatever perceived successes they have built, but struggle to do so. And in today's world with social media, sometimes they'll then try to cover up the fear, doubt, and internal struggle with bubbly posts that mask what is really going on inside - the fear that they are failing themselves and everyone around them. And they start to lose that hope that it will ever get better.

It's a serious struggle because for some of these kids, there's a real hesitation to reach out and get help. To speak to someone. Anyone. And then, it happens. That thought. Well. What if I were not here anymore. It would just be better. And at first, if you come from a loving household, the thought of what it would do to your parents keeps you from wanting to do it. You come from a great home and wouldn't dream of crushing your family that way. But the struggle continues, it feels overwhelming. To the point where it's all you think about. And for some, what comes next is accepting that it will hurt your family but the willingness to do it anyway. Along with, the planning of how you would carry it out.

The Madison Holleran story is about someone who yes, was beautiful. She was popular, athletic, smart, etc... I imagine that her story is showcased because it's hard to imagine anyone around her not looking up to her or wanting to be like her. She seemed perfect. And yet, underneath it all was someone who struggled mightily. Was it the expectations put on her by herself? Others? I do not know the reasons why she struggled, but it is clear that she did.

And I feel like this story has hopefully served as a message to people to get help if they ever feel they need it, and to be observant of those around them. Not everything will always be as perfect as it seems.

To anyone reading this, if you ever feel down or depressed, please do not wait. Just call someone, anyone. And do it immediately. Your parents will always be there for you. As would a friend. Or, call the Samaritans network, an anonymous third-party group that you can call. There is no shame in admitting you are struggling and it is possible to overcome.

not sure that is the point wrote:

Sunday Morning - every time I hear of this story, it brings me to a deep state of grief. So to me personally, nothing about this is glorified. But that is from my perspective. I am a guy in my mid 50's who came from an incredibly abusive environment, and made it out on my own due to a Division 1 track scholarship. I can deeply identify with the misery this young woman felt (although from the outside one would never know), and am grateful but either dumb luck or some sort of masochistic toughness I made it through. I could see how young people could think this is some sort of romantic way out. Of course, it is nothing of the sort, but I see your point.

Listen - I dealt with depression in college and let me tell you, there was nothing romantic about me the night I finally built up the desire to jump from my 6th floor dorm window.

When I went to college, I kept in touch with high school friends online (remember AIM??) and everything was "just the best." I was having that perfect experience. But in reality, when I went to college freshman year, things started out okay, but quickly deteriorated after about a month. I stopped enjoying the day to day experience. Nothing that I did seemed good enough. Everything from academics to even being social stopped being fun and felt stressful or overwhelming. I started to lose interest in just about everything. I decided that drinking more would help. If it did (which I doubt), it was temporary. Drugs came next. Same thing.

I remember flying home and being with my high school friends for winter break. I didn't want to leave, even though I told everyone I was excited to go back to college. God was I full of it.

This one night just after winter break ended and I had flown back for the semester, a friend from high school reached out and told me that she knew something was wrong. We ended up talking for about 2 hours over the phone. It was just such an unloading of everything. I had been too afraid to say anything to anyone, but my friend recognized something and decided to reach out. My parents probably thought that I was okay. They had asked, but I lied to them and said everything was fine. But thankfully my friend saw through some of the lies or deflections. I ended up transferring schools, moving closer to home, and thankfully things picked up from there for the better. That was 16 years ago. But I am scared now to think about what might have happened had my friend not called at the exact moment she did.

There are kids who are going to go to college who seem like their future is this bright, shining star - and feel completely overwhelmed and possibly like a complete failure. And it is so easy for them to mask this internal struggle that they are dealing with deep down. Suicide isn't some romantic way out - if you are at that point when you are contemplating it, it's because you feel like it is the ONLY way out and the only way things will ever get better. And it's a terrible feeling to have ....

Because they are the ones that commit suicide while "ugly minority's" don't! Did I take the bait! How about you research it and come back with a list. Addicts excluded.

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

While I appreciate the effort to raise awareness, why are these stories always focused on pretty white girls?

Whenever a young person commits suicide, there is always a big struggle to understand why. In many cases, there is a causal relationship between suicide and external stresses caused by things like bullying, abuse, sexual orientation/gender identity, etc. But then there are very disturbing cases where there is no clear causal relationship between the suicide and anything else. People like Madison seemingly had it all, but still took their own life. That makes people wonder whether we are missing something with these people. Is there a success bias that prevents us from seeing problems with people who are attractive and successful because we think that they could not possible have problems? Or are attractive and successful people able to leverage their good looks and achievements to cover up big problems or mental illness?

Madison likely dealt with far more competition both athletically AND athletically at Penn than in high school. I assume Madison lived away from home (not a commuter) so her parents didn't/couldn't pick up on any changes in behavior.....and even if they did??????????????

Off topic re glorification of suicide - Club Tattoo is having a Chester Bennington tribute day. 1/2 off Chester themed tats. I'm not making this up; I don't have the imagination to make this up.

rojo wrote:

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

While I appreciate the effort to raise awareness, why are these stories always focused on pretty white girls?

Because I think logically people have trouble understanding why a highly educated, good looking, super athlete from a good family would take her own life. Suicide doesn't make sense but people really want it to make sense.

Everyone struggles in life and those that don't have looks, or athleticism or brains may think that if they had one of those things that life would be easier. Here is a young woman that seemingly had it all but it wasn't enough.

My friend was working at a cable company with a household name. It was his dream. Straight A student, multiple time allstate athlete in two sports. Declined athletic scholarships to walk on to a nationally ranked basketball team. He wanted to go to Yale's journalism school as a graduate student and all of his ducks were in a row to do just that.

When he didnt show up for work people became concerned. Wellness check revealed a deceased male laying in bed having taken a medicine cocktail of the sort. He literally had everything this girl did.

His dad is a child psychiatrist. Very hard on all of us but especially him.

Did you marry the girl that called you and saved you?

I Could Not Disagree More - I respect your experience was different. And your conclusion is excellent - reach out and communicate.

But I am not as confident as you are that young people will come to that conclusion. I certainly didn't have the good sense to reach out to anyone, and with my unemployed single mother in the hospital during my college days, I am not sure there was anyone around.

One help was that I did not drink or do any drugs. This wasn't from any moral stance, though. Just any expenditure on that kind of thing detracted from my ability to eat - which was mostly peanut butter and pancake mix. 70 miles a week on poor nutrition caught up with me - it affects me to this day. My guess is that the avoidance of drugs or alcohol is what kept me on the right side of the line. I was good enough to have some considerable press coverage and all of that - so my bravado to the outside world was likely very misleading.

Glad you are telling your story.

Social media these days probably does not help (not saying it causes depression). Very few people post the unhappy parts of their lives (aside from the occasional traffic or customer service issue or getting tossed off a plane). We tend to post the happy things. When someone reads that it can add to the "My life sucks". In reality that person is having sucky things happen too.

The Hidden Brain podcast addressed this in episode 68.

http://www.npr.org/podcasts/510308/hidden-brain

Luv2Run you're absolutely right...I've often thought how grateful I am to not be in high school

or college in this day and age of keeping up a social media facade. As an adult you know it's mostly fake, plays up the highlights and ignores the mundane, and essentially it's merely a headline of peoples' lives with no text to follow, to make an analogy. But with the younger population, it's their "real world." I can't imagine how tough that is for kids/very young adults.

doitforjobs wrote:

Did you marry the girl that called you and saved you?

No - but to say that we are still extremely close as of today is the understatement of the century. She also went to school in a place that was also a plane ride away from home but ended up moving back to the area (we both live in Boston area now). We both ran track/xc in high school and did a few other extracurricular activities as well. Because we basically spent 4 years constantly in each other's faces we became very very close friends and remain that to this day. We've only ever discussed that night once. It was in 2010 when I thanked her for being such a great friend.

I never told my parents about that night. Heck, I've never even told my wife about it either. She knows that I had a rocky few years in college and that I have "partied harder" than I should have. I'm sure she can recognize moments every now and then where I tend to withdraw. But I do not share my first year of college story. Not with anyone. Because I don't want to get into it all. It's not the most fun conversation to have...Even doing this anonymously on letsrun - I am still nervous. When I originally posted the above two posts, I had written it all in one post. It took me about 90 minutes to write it all. I then was afraid to put out the part about my personal experience so I cut it out. But after I posted the first post, I read some of the newer posts that had been put up during that period characterizing people who these get reported on, I decided to say F it. But generally, I just don't like to share it. It brings up too many troubling and unhappy memories. To everyone else out there who struggles - my heart bleeds for you.

My friend is the only person who knows just how bad it got ... well, and the professionals I spoke with after of course ... but I did all of that behind my parents' backs. I am still afraid to tell my parents that their "dream" of a son had more emotional issues than he let on. They have just always worked so hard to raise me and put me in this position of success and I have never wanted to disappoint them or make them feel like they failed in some way as parents. Although when I transferred, I think they knew I was very unhappy at my then school and needed to be closer to home. I gave up a full scholarship from a top tier university to go to a similarly ranked school closer to home - but with no scholarship at all. And I feel guilty about that. I took out loans to pay for everything after sophomore year. They asked and I just told them I was unhappy, it wasn't working out and I liked the program of study at this other university. I think my parents liked having me closer to home because I wasn't a plane ride away anymore and so they just accepted it.

When I transferred, I picked up running again - recreationally. Stopped using any drugs. Didn't drink for a while until I at least knew I wasn't doing it to numb the pain. I still try to avoid drinking altogether. And fortunately, I am in a much better place now. Mentally, physically, etc... I graduated, went to law school, got married, etc.... Everything that is part of "life's script" I supposed you would call it. I am appreciative for all that I have and have been given. But there are still moments where I have to take a step back and just - take a few breaths and collect myself. I still run and that helps a lot. Very little can bother you while you're out for a 60 minute jog.

Rambling post and I apologize for that. I think the point is that if you looked at me from the outside, you would probably see someone who is successful. I still mask it. But underneath it all - there is a real struggle going on at times, but I think I have more wherewithall/options today to handle it and deal with it. Someone recognized the issues and reached out. And I will forever love her for doing that. When I see or hear about a friend who is having any kind of trouble - I will drop everything to help - because someone did that for me and it saved my life. I encourage you all to do the same.

And I agree that younger kids may not be inclined to reach out, or know about the various options that are out there. To "not sure that is the point" - you are correct. And kudos for making it through. It sounds like you have been through a lot as well.

And to those who mention social media and the snowball effect that causes - I could not agree more. Things like instagram make things harder for younger people, because part of "fitting in" is posting photos of you being happy and doing all of these "great things" all of the time. If you're having a terrible day, you're probably not going to post a photo of you just looking off into the distance, in tears, or being otherwise open about it. I say probably - some will. But the majority feel like "success" in life is projecting that image of perfection and happiness at all times. It actually leads me to believe that the people who have to post a daily "my life is awesome" instagram post are probably the most in need of reassurance or help.

What I could not disagree more here said.

This is what Smith College is doing about it:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/fashion/fear-of-failure.html

Thank you for having EMPATHY! I think everyone on this thread should read the book before commenting on her or the situation. Especially those with negative remarks. This is not a thread about other issues which I am not disregarding in anyway but Madison Hollerans story is scary and serves a educational purpose for us all. Having anything negative to say about it is Disgusting and this is not a thread to bring up any negative stigmas towards white females. The girl was struggling and you need to read the story to understand. Thank you to all who have treated this thread in a positive educational manner.