So watcha think?
So watcha think?
If you know your max heart rate, then keep your recovery runs at max heart rate minus 50 beats per minute.
You should not feel like you are pushing the pace at all. This might mean 8:00 or slower pace.
Bradley Pittly wrote:
You should not feel like you are pushing the pace at all. This might mean 8:00 or slower pace.
I told this to my teammates and they thought I was lying to them. I always go about 7:50 pace, and for reference I'm a 4:26 miler. Gotta run slow to run fast am I right?
Fundamental workouts (including recovery runs) should be by effort.
Only specific workouts absolutely need to be by pace.
I say in recovery runs, do not pay any attention to the pace. Run very easy by feeling, enjoy it- like a cool down run. If you start dealing with pace in recovery runs, you would make to much effort and hurt the quality session that awaits you the day after or the couple of days after. Think of it as a cool down for yesterday's quality session
I'm high right now wrote:
Bradley Pittly wrote:You should not feel like you are pushing the pace at all. This might mean 8:00 or slower pace.
I told this to my teammates and they thought I was lying to them. I always go about 7:50 pace, and for reference I'm a 4:26 miler. Gotta run slow to run fast am I right?
That pace seems about right. I always go by mile shape plus three minutes.
Tez XC wrote:
I'm high right now wrote:I told this to my teammates and they thought I was lying to them. I always go about 7:50 pace, and for reference I'm a 4:26 miler. Gotta run slow to run fast am I right?
That pace seems about right. I always go by mile shape plus three minutes.
I like that
below 70% of Max HR.
So, to answer your question, at "the pace your body needs".
Workouts are for getting faster, recovery days are for recovering.
thejeff wrote:
below 70% of Max HR.
So, to answer your question, at "the pace your body needs".
Workouts are for getting faster, recovery days are for recovering.
These heart rate suggestions are always wrong. 2 min/km below my race pace is uncomfortably easy, and over 75% of my max HR. 70% would be near impossible.
It matters is you are a "slow twitch" or a "fast twitch" runner. If you are more "fast twitch" stay near the recommended heart rate numbers.
How are you defining a recovery day? Is it everything except a workout? Is it the day following a hard workout? Amount of mileage also plays a role. Recovering on 40mpw can be significantly faster that that of someone running 100mpw.
Personally, I think 7:50 is terribly slow for a 4:26 miler, to use the example from above. I would expect a runner of that caliber to only run that slowly for a cool down or maybe on one run of a double day. I would put a 4:26 miler closer to 6:55 on a recovery day, and down around the 6:25-6:35 range, depending on how they feel, on a normal day.
To say you have to run slow to run fast is a little ridiculous. You have to be recovered moderately well. If you NEED to run 7:50 to recover, so be it. I've never coached a kid of that speed who can't recover just as well at 6:45-7:00.
I think it would be difficult to run with proper form as you approach those slower paced.
For what it's worth, I've run 4:12 for 1600 and haven't seen a mile of training over 7:00 pace in a long, long, time. I tend to hover around 6:15-6:45 depending on the day and my current mileage.
My 1500 pb is the same as yours and I never ran faster than 8:00 on recovery days, though I usually ran 100 mpw. Different strokes.
Cooptastic wrote:
How are you defining a recovery day? Is it everything except a workout? Is it the day following a hard workout? Amount of mileage also plays a role. Recovering on 40mpw can be significantly faster that that of someone running 100mpw.
Personally, I think 7:50 is terribly slow for a 4:26 miler, to use the example from above. I would expect a runner of that caliber to only run that slowly for a cool down or maybe on one run of a double day. I would put a 4:26 miler closer to 6:55 on a recovery day, and down around the 6:25-6:35 range, depending on how they feel, on a normal day.
To say you have to run slow to run fast is a little ridiculous. You have to be recovered moderately well. If you NEED to run 7:50 to recover, so be it. I've never coached a kid of that speed who can't recover just as well at 6:45-7:00.
I think it would be difficult to run with proper form as you approach those slower paced.
For what it's worth, I've run 4:12 for 1600 and haven't seen a mile of training over 7:00 pace in a long, long, time. I tend to hover around 6:15-6:45 depending on the day and my current mileage.
I`m with you "Cooptastic"! :) This talk about "recovery runs" is a term that I don`t like. I prefer to call these runs between the quality workouts for what they are.......they are distance runs that also have a special purpose of right pace to get the perfect pressure on the aerob system to develop optimal. Not too fast pace....but comfortable. I myself ran always 6:30 at the distance and raced 14:20 in the 5000m. I can`t remember there were many days tired. Usually felt full of energy and only ran 6 times in the week.
COACH J.S
Cooptastic wrote:
How are you defining a recovery day? Is it everything except a workout? Is it the day following a hard workout? Amount of mileage also plays a role. Recovering on 40mpw can be significantly faster that that of someone running 100mpw.
Personally, I think 7:50 is terribly slow for a 4:26 miler, to use the example from above. I would expect a runner of that caliber to only run that slowly for a cool down or maybe on one run of a double day. I would put a 4:26 miler closer to 6:55 on a recovery day, and down around the 6:25-6:35 range, depending on how they feel, on a normal day.
To say you have to run slow to run fast is a little ridiculous. You have to be recovered moderately well. If you NEED to run 7:50 to recover, so be it. I've never coached a kid of that speed who can't recover just as well at 6:45-7:00.
I think it would be difficult to run with proper form as you approach those slower paced.
For what it's worth, I've run 4:12 for 1600 and haven't seen a mile of training over 7:00 pace in a long, long, time. I tend to hover around 6:15-6:45 depending on the day and my current mileage.
You are knowledgeable and I don't doubt this works for you, but there is another variable to consider, which is overall volume. There are 28 minute 10K guys who run over 7 min pace (and even 7:30 pace) for most of their miles (but this is perhaps 90 mpw). And by "most", I really mean almost 100% of the miles that are not workout days.
I mentioned volume(mileage). A lot of people will cite the Kenyans running some of their runs very slowly. Sure they do. I'd start my 3rd run of the day, in the middle of a 140+ mile week, at altitude, that way too. That's plenty different from a high schooler knocking out 40 miles in singles six days a week. One is using the slower running as their only safe route to total volume, the other is not.
There are many variables, I agree. But, I'm hearing a lot of fairly careless touting of "run everything slow" and that's simply not true. Even Mo Farrah (or at least Salazar) attributes much of his meteoric rise to the top of the podium to his increased pace of regular runs.
Recovery doesn't have to be extremely slow, and every day is not recovery.
To my recovery runs should have a governor in terms of speed. I set a maximal speed but run at whatever pace is slower than that. So if I were planning a recovery run that would be 8:30 pace then I can run slower than that.
Those are great days to run with a slower friend or your kids.
Cooptastic wrote:
I mentioned volume(mileage). A lot of people will cite the Kenyans running some of their runs very slowly. Sure they do. I'd start my 3rd run of the day, in the middle of a 140+ mile week, at altitude, that way too. That's plenty different from a high schooler knocking out 40 miles in singles six days a week. One is using the slower running as their only safe route to total volume, the other is not.
There are many variables, I agree. But, I'm hearing a lot of fairly careless touting of "run everything slow" and that's simply not true. Even Mo Farrah (or at least Salazar) attributes much of his meteoric rise to the top of the podium to his increased pace of regular runs.
Recovery doesn't have to be extremely slow, and every day is not recovery.
Absolutely! Here comes the words from Arthur Lydiard " Elite runners don`t jog when they are at marathon training.They run at a pace of 3.10 -3.45 min per kilometer during their distance work." Mo often runs his distance at 3.45 or lower per km. So did and do most elite runners because it`s their best normal individual distance pace.....that pace is not too hard for them. The easy morning run is something else that you can probably name as "recovery run" and that is good for the people who believes in high mileage is necessary to reach individual optimal performance.
COACH J.S
My Kenyan elite runner Sammy Nyokaye ( 1.01.40 at half , 8 sec from world record half marathon at high altitude) seldom runs more slow then 6.30 mile pace .... and that`s up at 2 300 m altitude! So even the kenyans don`t do "junk mileage" at their main run for the day.
COACH J.S
Nope wrote:
thejeff wrote:below 70% of Max HR.
So, to answer your question, at "the pace your body needs".
Workouts are for getting faster, recovery days are for recovering.
These heart rate suggestions are always wrong. 2 min/km below my race pace is uncomfortably easy, and over 75% of my max HR. 70% would be near impossible.
I agree, actually. 70% is just easy to type.
I actually use this: [(MHR-RHR)x0.70]+RHR= Recovery Run HR
It is weighted by your Resting Heart Rate. Give that figure a try and report back, soldier.