Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
There is perhaps some truth to your analysis, but the point gets exaggerated when you use one athlete. Coe during the 80s, Kipketer during the 90s and Rudisha during the 2000s. There are always a once in a decade special athlete who is ahead of the curve and usually that athlete can't even better there WR performance. That would be like saying 10 years from now sprinters have gotten slower because they can't break 9.58. I will also point out that starting in the late 80s, the 800 took such a precipitous drop off across the board that I suspect something was afoot. Starting in the late 80s, 1:44x would win just about ever world class race. There were a couple fast 1:42x races, but it was not until Wilson Kipketer that we was saw the 800m performances start to equal the early to mid-80s.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
I'm glad you've said this Coach JS.
Now we can use it as a reference point to show anyone who thinks you are credible, that you are not.
There is no need for a drug. It`s proven that fast twitch muscles can be "transformed" to work as slowtwitch.....but....not the other way. WvN is a different type of sprinter- longsprinter that will suit for 800.
But of course.....we "argue" about something that probably never will happen......he don`t have to bother about the 800 ;)
COACH.J.S
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
I'm genuinely curious: why do you think he'd break 1:40?
"He does significant aerobic training" is a poor answer. Clyde Hart's programs spent several months a year developing aerobic strength with long repeats (6x800 with limited recovery, for example), tempo and fartlek runs (15 - 30 minutes in length) and steady state runs of up to 45 minutes.
"Because WVN is skinny/looks like he could be an 800 runner" is also a poor answer. He's run 9.94 in the 100; that makes him arguably the most speed-oriented quarter miler ever (perhaps next to Johnson, although I think we'll see a fast 200 from WVN this year that ends that discussion).
Then you get next post to add to that.......He will absolutely run sub 1.40 on one premission .....If i will be the coach! ;)
COACH J.S
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
There is no need for a drug. It`s proven that fast twitch muscles can be "transformed" to work as slowtwitch.....but....not the other way. WvN is a different type of sprinter- longsprinter that will suit for 800.
But of course.....we "argue" about something that probably never will happen......he don`t have to bother about the 800 ;)
COACH.J.S
Regarding the 800m.
That's the trouble with these sprinter wimps!
( and don't tell me how hard the 400m is! Get real! )
They don't like hurting ( Bolt, of course, is the ultimate example of this )
Where is the spirit of adventure?
Where is the desire to really mix it.
Of course, money makes them play safe.
And, makes them soft!
800 meter man wrote:
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
I'm genuinely curious: why do you think he'd break 1:40?
"He does significant aerobic training" is a poor answer. Clyde Hart's programs spent several months a year developing aerobic strength with long repeats (6x800 with limited recovery, for example), tempo and fartlek runs (15 - 30 minutes in length) and steady state runs of up to 45 minutes.
"Because WVN is skinny/looks like he could be an 800 runner" is also a poor answer. He's run 9.94 in the 100; that makes him arguably the most speed-oriented quarter miler ever (perhaps next to Johnson, although I think we'll see a fast 200 from WVN this year that ends that discussion).
I can say at once..... 6x 800 with limited recovery doesn`t develop aerobic strength....more like anaerob strength.....and you know maybe what i say about Fartlek? I say the same as Gerschler " It is not EXACT! " but......If I had coach WvN for 800 it had been in a very different way. A way that is individual exact balanced ....... the "DANCAN"-system way! :)
800 meter man wrote:
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:Of course I don`t think WvN ever will try 800.....but if he will he gonna break 1.40......I am sure.
I'm genuinely curious: why do you think he'd break 1:40?
"He does significant aerobic training" is a poor answer. Clyde Hart's programs spent several months a year developing aerobic strength with long repeats (6x800 with limited recovery, for example), tempo and fartlek runs (15 - 30 minutes in length) and steady state runs of up to 45 minutes.
"Because WVN is skinny/looks like he could be an 800 runner" is also a poor answer. He's run 9.94 in the 100; that makes him arguably the most speed-oriented quarter miler ever (perhaps next to Johnson, although I think we'll see a fast 200 from WVN this year that ends that discussion).
This is what I'm saying.
WVN is the most pure sprinter to ever grace the 400m. He is faster than MJ in every sense.
What WVN is really proving is that you don't need huge muscles to sprint extremely fast. You need many fast twitch fibres, to strengthen them, and develop the athletes turnover and quickness: not pure power.
But the simpler coaches just see: skinny fast guy, let's move him to the 800m he would be great. Without considering that his muscle fibre make-up is not at all suited and it would take 20 years or perhaps longer to develop enough slow twitch and intermediary fibres to tackle the middle distance events. By which time of course, it's too late.
TG you've never coached him then, or else we'd have missed out on one of the greatest talents of all time and he'd be just another 47/1:50 guy.
Key point of my post was that Hart's programs spent nearly a quarter of their training cycle developing aerobic strength. Not sure what world you're living in where 6x800 is an anaerobic strength workout.
I gave some of your posts credence before because you seemed to know a bit about how some fast athletes were training, but now I'm convinced that you're actually Asbel Kiprop trolling these boards. If so, well played sir. Well played.
Thanks for backing me up there.
One can never tell how long a record will stand though. I though MJ's 400m would last a bit longer!
800ftw. wrote:
800ftw. wrote:No
Just to elaborate, you think that because WVN is physically capable of running 1200m.in training he has what it takes to be an 800m runner?
You are sorely mistaken. WVN is a pure sprinter. The purest sprint type 400m runner we have ever seen in fact. The least capable of 800m running perhaps next to Johnson.
It would be a miracle to see him break 1:50.
Yes, I think his 200m potential is greater than Johnson's even.
Alberto Juantorena is probably the best example of a quarter-miler that even control 800m.....he didn`t have to run faster at 800 to win the gold in Olympics. Could have run faster.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Alberto Juantorena is probably the best example of a quarter-miler that even control 800m.....he didn`t have to run faster at 800 to win the gold in Olympics. Could have run faster.
800m running exploded after Juantorena's era. He would never have won 800m gold in later Olympics.
wheeeeeeee wrote:
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:Alberto Juantorena is probably the best example of a quarter-miler that even control 800m.....he didn`t have to run faster at 800 to win the gold in Olympics. Could have run faster.
800m running exploded after Juantorena's era. He would never have won 800m gold in later Olympics.
His 400m wasn't exactly rocket speed either. I doubt anyone will ever successfully 400m/800m double again. I'd love to see someone try though.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Alberto Juantorena is probably the best example of a quarter-miler that even control 800m.....he didn`t have to run faster at 800 to win the gold in Olympics. Could have run faster.
Juantorena was NOTHING like WVN. It's comparing oranges to apples. They aren't similar by any metric or stretch of the imagination.
I really hope you aren't serious about all this.
6 x 800 can never be an aerob workout that really gives an extra add to aerob power. And remember ......I am not coaching 400m......I coach 800m up to Ultra. But I think I should be able to coach good even at 400m.....but that is a different story. ;) And I am not Asbel of course......but I know him and he knows who I am threw internet. By the way ....I chatted with him last evening. He told he think Kenya have a new star-runner on 1500m on his way. A young guy that will race tomorrow in Monaco. And it is of course not Canova`s guy Kwemoi he meant.
COACH J.S
wheeeeeeee wrote:
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:Alberto Juantorena is probably the best example of a quarter-miler that even control 800m.....he didn`t have to run faster at 800 to win the gold in Olympics. Could have run faster.
800m running exploded after Juantorena's era. He would never have won 800m gold in later Olympics.
Don`t be so sure. ;)
wheeeeeeee wrote:
wheeeeeeee wrote:800m running exploded after Juantorena's era. He would never have won 800m gold in later Olympics.
His 400m wasn't exactly rocket speed either. I doubt anyone will ever successfully 400m/800m double again. I'd love to see someone try though.
Don't know about those statements. Juantorena only seriously tried in the 800m in 1976 and smashed the world record in the Olympic final. 1.43.50 would be too good for nearly everybody except Coe and Cruz for nearly a decade. I don't think he ran too many paced world record attempts in his brief 800m career but he was surely capable of sub 1.43. As an Ovett worshipper, I don't mind admitting that had Juantorena not had to have surgery at the end of 77 he could well have successfully defended his title in Moscow.
As for his 400m speed his pb was 44.2, which must have been close to the sea level WR at the time. sub 44 400m at sea level only became a reality in the 80's, coincidentally at exactly the same time sub 10 second 100m suddenly became the norm.
I don't support this idea that all it takes for the 800m WR to be smashed is for an elite 400m sprinter to seriously move up, but Juantorena is by far the best evidence for that argument. He was the best 400m runner in the world, moved up to the 800m almost for fun and took the WR to the next level in the Olympic final.
Wasn't WVN's 400m wr at near sea level. That's over a second quicker as well.