60 yr old doper nailed

Ok, people seem to care about this. In my mind, when you race and are 60+, you are simply using the races as motivation to stay active and fit. Meds are probably also part of that plan at that age. Otherwise, you are simply tearing your body up. I guess that races should then have the non ranked category. That would keep everybody happy.

As a 60-something who has slowed normally and doesn't race anymore, I am disgusted by the assumption that being 60 gives you a free pass to "medicate" i.e. cheat. My personal fallback solace is that nature is a karmic b*tch and you "medicators" will have some serious health consequences down the line.

Kiddiidyyd wrote:

Ok, people seem to care about this. In my mind, when you race and are 60+, you are simply using the races as motivation to stay active and fit. Meds are probably also part of that plan at that age. Otherwise, you are simply tearing your body up. I guess that races should then have the non ranked category. That would keep everybody happy.

Getting old is tough..... wrote:

As a 52 year old who is wrecked for 3 days after a long run, I certainly wouldn't want to be competing against somebody doping who probably only needs one day to recover like I could when I was in my 30s.

I competed in the master's events when I turned 40 and beat a lot of guys, back then. When I got in my mid to late 40's, my times got quite a bit slower. Now, I see the times from some of those guys I used to beat and wonder what is going on. I couldn't dare approach those kinds of times, now. Some people let their ego's get the best of them and their need to be relevant, as well. But they aren't fooling me. You must take the axiom, "If it looks to good to be true, it probably is". Everyone cheats in this sport, now.

What do you attribute your success to?

I'm 45 and seeing guys my age run much faster age graded times then they ever did in college and I'm wondering how they are doing it. You are a little past the prime years, but not so far past that it is patently unreasonable for you to be setting new PRs, but at later ages, it is harder to explain, especially for guys who competed collegiately on decent teams.

Cyberius wrote:

As a 60-something who has slowed normally and doesn't race anymore, I am disgusted by the assumption that being 60 gives you a free pass to "medicate" i.e. cheat. My personal fallback solace is that nature is a karmic b*tch and you "medicators" will have some serious health consequences down the line.

]

You are a bit strange if you care about how you do in 60+ age group. The point here is not to "cheat". The point is to maintain your quality of life as long as possible. I am not one who simply wants to "survive" for as long as possible (not a game I am interested in). Keeping physically fit is part of maintaining quality of life. The body is unfortunately not naturally made for you to stay fit in your 60s and 70s, unless you won the genetic lottery. So...

Well, I'll tell ya, with the way nature's been cheating us, I don't mind cheating her a little.

60 year olds still get nailed these days?

Like I said, I don't compete in ANY age category anymore. But thanks to consistent training, a very healthy diet and good stress-management, I am extremely fit, just at a significantly slower pace than in my 30s. One doesn't have to be able to knock off sub-6:00 miles to be fit. And certainly taking artificial steroids is not going to confer true fitness, just a drugged-up illusion which will come crashing down at some point. When I say cheating I mean cheating yourself and your true biological potential.

Kiddiidyyd wrote:

Cyberius wrote:

As a 60-something who has slowed normally and doesn't race anymore, I am disgusted by the assumption that being 60 gives you a free pass to "medicate" i.e. cheat. My personal fallback solace is that nature is a karmic b*tch and you "medicators" will have some serious health consequences down the line.

]

You are a bit strange if you care about how you do in 60+ age group. The point here is not to "cheat". The point is to maintain your quality of life as long as possible. I am not one who simply wants to "survive" for as long as possible (not a game I am interested in). Keeping physically fit is part of maintaining quality of life. The body is unfortunately not naturally made for you to stay fit in your 60s and 70s, unless you won the genetic lottery. So...

Smoove wrote:

What do you attribute your success to?

I'm 45 and seeing guys my age run much faster age graded times then they ever did in college and I'm wondering how they are doing it. You are a little past the prime years, but not so far past that it is patently unreasonable for you to be setting new PRs, but at later ages, it is harder to explain, especially for guys who competed collegiately on decent teams.

Go to the 50+ Masters Forum and ask them what their secret is. There some serious speed over there and many of them proudly post their killer weekly workouts & mileage. Of course, if there's any funny business going on, no one is going to disclose what they're using, prescription stuff or otherwise. 🤔

Kiddiidyyd wrote:

Ok, people seem to care about this. In my mind, when you race and are 60+, you are simply using the races as motivation to stay active and fit. Meds are probably also part of that plan at that age. Otherwise, you are simply tearing your body up. I guess that races should then have the non ranked category. That would keep everybody happy.

I agree with you. And I disagree with you.

As a 56-year-old who runs for a club with lots of pretty good age 50+ runners, and who's friends with many of the top 60+ and 70+ runners in the USA, I can vouch for the fact that older guys still train hard and race hard--and are pissed as hell at the dopers in our ranks who justify the enormous advantage that PEDs bring at any age (maybe even more so as you age, since it's injury and not motivation that fells most of us after our 40s). Simply put, no one wants to spot someone else 400 meters in a 5K (an 8% advantage not dissimilar to what a cocktail of steroids, EPO, and HGH might provide), then pretend it was all on the up and up afterward. In fact, it leaves a lot of us furious.

On the other hand, none of us wants those guys and gals in our age groups who, unfortunately, do have to rely on medications for quality of life to be excluded from competition. You shouldn't have to give up the sport and your friends in the sport simply because you didn't luck out with the longevity genes.

But while some of us would welcome two categories of competition--one for clean masters and one for those who have to take drugs--the reality is that it would simply create another mess. Beyond the scarlet letter problem with labeling some athletes thumbs-up-PED users, it still wouldn't stop those who wanted to cheat and then pretend to compete "clean." There'd simply be less motivation to catch them--which would make things even worse than they are now.

When I came into masters, it was with rose-tinted glasses. I thought old guys and gals wouldn't cheat simply to win a stupid medal or run a "fast" (slower than we used to run) time. I was wrong. Eddy showed us all that old guys will cheat--and cheat big time. In fact, I created my "Eddy Rules" as a way of evaluating other masters runners' performances to determine whether they were cheating--for my own entertainment, NEVER to make public accusations lacking any solid proof.

So I guess I want to say three things:

1. USATF masters runners also have money taken for our membership fees to fund PED testing, and most of us are glad that's happening--we don't want to compete against cheaters ... Seriously, who does? At anything?

2. We masters guys also have a lot of empathy for those runners who need meds to keep up their quality of life--we don't want to lose them at meets, but we don't want to lose to them, either, if the meds are providing an advantage. I don't have the solution.

3. Here are my Eddy Rules:

THE EDDY RULES

1) After years of competition, the runner suddenly improves his or her performances (all-time or over recent years) as a masters runner and keeps improving as he or she continues to age.

2) The runner surpasses recent years’ PRs for shorter race distances during longer races (e.g., running a masters PR for 5K while racing 10K) even though he or she regularly competes at the shorter distance.

3) The runner races week-after-week with no performance decline, unless the race announces drug-testing, in which case the runner mysteriously drops out or has a sub-par performance.

4) The runner's integrity in non-running aspects of life is suspect (i.e.—You can’t be dishonest in one aspect of your life and suddenly be an upright citizen in something else).

5) The runner's competitive peers are 100% certain that the runner is cheating, not because of superior times, but because the runner’s training and racing cycle lies outside the experience of "clean" athletes.

lol what were you on when you came up with rant for "the low-information LR posters" and why should we believe now

I'm not sure why the former post you quoted is incompatible with my last post. Sean Wade is a totally legit masters athlete, and none of my Eddy Rules applies to him. Sean's spent the last year just trying to overcome the injuries he sustained during his short record-breaking run as a 50-year-old ... FYI, that's what happens to most old guys who go on a tear. Their bodies can produce the times--they just can't recover from the damage incurred while running them, LOL! 60-year-old Brian Pilcher will tell you the same. Hell, I'll go on all day about it! ;-)

It seems to me the post you've quoted above was addressed to a poster who suggested there was something wrong about training with passion after the age when open PRs are attainable. It was an unjustified shot at the life choices of those who want to keep competing. My reply was pointing out that Sean's had a very successful life AND a successful running career--both as an open runner and a masters athlete.

But maybe I'm missing something?

In any case, I do agree with you about one thing: I do tend to rant. Why else would I come onto the LetsRun message board??!!

I'd ad another rule: if they associate with others whose performances are highly suspect for any of the reason you mention.

They can dope at that age for health reasons if they give up any claim to records, championships, and prizes.

I don't see why you are "strange" if caring about how you do in your age group has an arbitrary cut off.

I've competed since age 14, as a high-school runner; English club athlete running x-country, track and road; road-runner in the U.S.; and as a master on the roads, and the occasional USATF track championship. I've just turned 60, and am as interested in optimizing my performance as I every was.

I'm married, have a career I love, and a house full of animals, but the desire to compete whether it is with my "age-graded self" or anyone else who will lace them up has never changed.

I accept that there is a decline in performance, and recovery, but part of the intellectual challenge is how best to utilize these declining physical talents. What I don't accept is that a 60-year-old body isn't meant to stay fit. I still run virtually every day, and generally at a not embarrassingly slow pace (yet). I'm still running a 3 mile tempo at 6:20 per mile, and still doing speedwork and hills. It's not flying compared to my 25-year-old self, but it's still pretty handy compared to the average for the population.

At a tangent, it seems that genetics and maybe consistency of training can allow outperforming age grades. Even though I trained very seriously through my 20s and 30s, I've steadily got faster in age graded terms. I'm not really sure why, but suspect if you maintain intensity and consistency it can be done.

casual obsever wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Old folks are allowed to dope.

He should've paid attention and used one of the many known out-of-jail cards, such as the sex or supplement or meat excuse.

I agree. When I got dinged, I honestly maybe confessed to having sex with some tainted meat.

Seemed like an innocuous comment to me, FMD I wouldn't want to do aqua jogging for any reason, if I did I'd have to be doped like the this threads subject 60 yr old, and then some.

60 yr old, and then some. wrote:

Seemed like an innocuous comment to me, FMD I wouldn't want to do aqua jogging for any reason, if I did I'd have to be doped like the this threads subject 60 yr old, and then some.

Hey pop , back off the weed , proofread and leave the millennial acronyms to the millenials .

Smoove wrote:

I'd ad another rule: if they associate with others whose performances are highly suspect for any of the reason you mention.

So funny I can't stop laughing. So, an older runner associates with another older runner who's performances are highly suspect, and he/she becomes highly suspicious? Would you then classify them as "likely doping" and get a request out to USADA for target testing? 😅