Who's fault -- Sagan, Cavendish or the Tour?

Read before you link, most in that agree - no DQ but were ok with relegation. This article does not exonerate Sagan from a role in the crash. And yes part of fault of the crash is with Cavendish in my book.

SEDave wrote:

What do all these guys know though:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-riders-past-and-present-shocked-by-peter-sagans-disqualification/

Not a good analysis. It's incidental contact; no foul, no penalty, no nothing. Cavendish is riding up against the barrier, right on edge of the curb - he should know better as a seasoned pro. That's considered the destruction zone in the last 100 - 200 m of a bunch sprint; a rider can get pinched, hit the curb, get struck by a hand waving fan, etc...who would have thought. And Cavendish could have accepted responsibility and admitted that he make a mistake in judgment instead of whining about Sagan's elbow.

One of the greatest Green jersey winners in the history of cycle and one of the most popular riders is thrown out. The TdF is more of joke now than it was back when Armstrong rode in it! 🤐

Here is what really happened for those runners that don't really follow cycling.

I Know Cycling Very Well wrote:

[quote][

Not a good analysis. It's incidental contact; no foul, no penalty, no nothing. Cavendish is riding up against the barrier, right on edge of the curb - he should know better as a seasoned pro. That's considered the destruction zone in the last 100 - 200 m of a bunch sprint; a rider can get pinched, hit the curb, get struck by a hand waving fan, etc...who would have thought. And Cavendish could have accepted responsibility and admitted that he make a mistake in judgment instead of whining about Sagan's elbow.

One of the greatest Green jersey winners in the history of cycle and one of the most popular riders is thrown out. The TdF is more of joke now than it was back when Armstrong rode in it! 🤐

So Cavendish should know not to go by the barriers and Sagan can move right, along the barriers if needed. You seem to overlook that Sagan who crashed out of this springs Tour of Flanders by riding too close to the barriers and catching a fans jacket with his handlebars. By your rational he should be even more afraid of getting close to the roadside based on recent experiences. Great argument.

Depends when the first contact between Cavendish and Sagan took place. If "the elbow" was the first contact then it does look deliberate and Sagan probably deserved what he got. However, on UK TV Chris Boardman indicated that the first contact was prior to this and that Sagan may have been instinctively defending his space. His argument was that the officials have punished the consequences of the act rather than the act itself and that the biggest deviation from a racing line was by the stage winner - but because nobody fell of as a result no action was taken against him.

Whatever, if the officials are to be consistent, we can expect a lot more DQs before the Tour's end!!

No objective observer could possibly accept this explanation. Sagan is perfectly balanced and extends his elbow to try to prevent Cav from coming past on the inside. Clear as day.

disgraceful_admin wrote:

Exactly. Cav bumped into Sagan and started falling by himself. Then, while Cav is already falling/screwed, Sagan reflexively lifts his elbow to catch his balance and doesn't impede or touch the already crashing Cav.

This video is hilarious.

But I was expecting and hoping for a 100 bike crash.

Er... wrote:

No objective observer could possibly accept this explanation. Sagan is perfectly balanced and extends his elbow to try to prevent Cav from coming past on the inside. Clear as day.

disgraceful_admin wrote:

Exactly. Cav bumped into Sagan and started falling by himself. Then, while Cav is already falling/screwed, Sagan reflexively lifts his elbow to catch his balance and doesn't impede or touch the already crashing Cav.

Actually, what is clear as day is that Cav head-bumps Sagan and starts tilting over and into the wall. After that Sagan elbow rises to keep his balance, and as preparation for a possible crash into the wall courtesy of Cav taking Sagan's wheels out from under him. That is clear as day.

Cavendish or Renshaw are ALWAYS involved in a major sprint crash. And somehow Cavendish or Renshaw are NEVER at fault.

Funny how that works.

I watched this live. Don't care to debate who was at fault but find it annoying that Phil Liggett completely misses the elbow while calling the race. Then the guy who led the race for 4 hours struggles into the finish line after cratering. No comment on that either.

the first contact between the two riders is Cav's head pushing into the back of Sagan right shoulder. The video doesn't clearly show Sagan elbow causing Cav to fall, Cavs wheels went out from under him as he pushed on Sagan

Except that Renshaw was kicked out of the 2010 Tour.

Did anyone notice in the coverage that Sagan apologized to Cavendish?

akdrnr wrote:

I watched this live. Don't care to debate who was at fault but find it annoying that Phil Liggett completely misses the elbow while calling the race. Then the guy who led the race for 4 hours struggles into the finish line after cratering. No comment on that either.

Phil is losing it. Like Tom Hammond or Rick Allen, he can't call a race. He failed to spot both Sagan and Cavendish, until they "came out of nowhere."

It's the inconsistencies in the boring-ass Tour that upset me. No matter how they explain Sagan getting booted, others in that finishing sprint did the same thing (changed lines, etc.).

It would be EPIC if Sagan announced today that he will never again ride in the TDF, and instead win all the other stuff he always wins, and return to cyclocross to win there, too. F*ck Le Tour. If this is what they want, give it to them!

Stuff happens in bike sprint finishes where everyone takes risks in a narrow course.

UCI XC wrote:

Except that Renshaw was kicked out of the 2010 Tour.

Did anyone notice in the coverage that Sagan apologized to Cavendish?

I thought that was more of, "sorry you ended up hurt" rather than "sorry I elbowed you into the barrier"

People keep mentioning Cav's head bump into Sagan as the first contact. This is true but it happened because Sagan moved rightward into Cav's lane. Cavendish's bike did not move left into Sagan.

Eye for an eye wrote:

Cavendish deserves that crash after the shit he pulled at the 2016 olympics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=869ytxoJsF8

that video missed out on the worst part in that Cavendish looked back squarely at that korean he took out just before dropping down on him causing the crash...a shame he wasn't DQ'd then

Cavendish is no angel, but this is on Sagan. Too many people are focusing on the instant before the crash. The action starts a few seconds before that. Sagan and Cavendish are both trying to use Demare as their lead out man. Cavendish has the perfect line behind Demare as they start drifting towards the barrier. Sagan initially thinks about staying in the middle or going to his left instead of swinging right with Cavendish and Demare. But then he sees that Cavendish and Demare are charging hard and will be contending for the sprint. Sagan then tries to cut in between Demare and Cavendish to get up on Demare's slip stream, but Sagan cannot accelerate hard enough to get past Cavendish. Sagan then tries to force Cavendish to the right by extending his elbow before the two are right up against the barrier. This causes Cavendish to try to go around Sagan by swinging right to the edge of the barrier. Cavendish wants to follow Demare back to the middle of the road, but Sagan keeps moving towards the barrier and collides with Cavendish.

There was no reason for Sagan to keep going wide at that point. Demare started cutting back to the center. Sagan was clear to sprint, but did not want to give Cavendish room to get in his slip stream and sneak past him in the last 10m. Sagan had poor positioning coming into the sprint. He tried to make up for it by pushing Cavendish out of Demare's slipstream. He eventually was able to get Cavendish out of Demare's slipstream by moving him up against the barrier. But that move just meant that Sagan would have had Cavendish on his shoulder at the critical final sprint. Sagan wanted to make Cavendish brake and be completely behind him by positioning himself on the barrier. But Sagan was not fast enough to do this without making contact with Cavendish. Sagan did a bad job setting up his sprint and took it out on Cavendish who was in perfect position.