kjfdlkjfklj wrote:
How much is a 4.5% advantage for a 2:00 800 runner? What are we talking here 3,4 seconds?
False. The 4.5% was in female hammer.
In female athletes, a high fT concentration appears to confer a 1.8–2.8% competitive advantage in long sprint and 800 m races.
The relationship between high fT concentration and better performances by female athletes in hammer throw and pole vault (+4.5% and +2.9%, respectively) is a finding reported for the first time. I
Makes a 2:00 runner a 1:55-mid runner.
Are you kidding? Of course they have an advantage, Castor S and all of the chicks with D's are making a mockery of our sport, this much is obvious. The real question is what will the governing bodies do about it? Most likely nothing.
Commissioned by the IAAF v CAS wrote:
Women runners born with high testosterone levels enjoy a "significant competitive advantage", said a study Tuesday that could reignite debate on the future participation of athletes whose gender was questioned.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/06/26/bjsports-2017-097792The study, jointly sponsored by the sporting agency seeking to ban athletes with hyperandrogenism, comes three weeks before the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) must present expert evidence on "the actual degree" of advantage women could gain.Hyperandrogenism is a condition that causes high natural levels of the male hormone, testosterone, in women.
Without proof, IAAF regulations excluding women with hyperandrogenism from competition are set to lapse. Track stars such as South Africa's Caster Semenya and India's Dutee Chand both endured banishment for failing so-called "gender tests"
.
https://www.afp.com/en/news/207/testosterone-significant-boost-women-athletesThe new study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, was funded by the IAAF and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).
One of the authors, Stephane Bermon, is an IAAF consultant and a member of its working group on hyperandrogenic athletes.
The other, Pierre-Yves Garnier, is director of the IAAF's health and science department. He returned to work in January after a three-month suspension in a probe linked to Russian athletics doping.
Commissioned by the IAAF v CAS wrote:
Women runners born with high testosterone levels enjoy a "significant competitive advantage", said a study Tuesday that could reignite debate on the future participation of athletes whose gender was questioned.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/06/26/bjsports-2017-097792The study, jointly sponsored by the sporting agency seeking to ban athletes with hyperandrogenism, comes three weeks before the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) must present expert evidence on "the actual degree" of advantage women could gain.Hyperandrogenism is a condition that causes high natural levels of the male hormone, testosterone, in women.
Without proof, IAAF regulations excluding women with hyperandrogenism from competition are set to lapse. Track stars such as South Africa's Caster Semenya and India's Dutee Chand both endured banishment for failing so-called "gender tests"
.
https://www.afp.com/en/news/207/testosterone-significant-boost-women-athletesThe new study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, was funded by the IAAF and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).
One of the authors, Stephane Bermon, is an IAAF consultant and a member of its working group on hyperandrogenic athletes.
The other, Pierre-Yves Garnier, is director of the IAAF's health and science department. He returned to work in January after a three-month suspension in a probe linked to Russian athletics doping.
Good. Now get rid of sex categories form competition and replace them with 3 or 4 testosterone categories.
Now on BBC as well....
Oh please. This is irrelevant, when one just looks at the evidence: Caster is a clean talent who works hard! No case to answer, nothing to see here.
Bump
Anyone else stop watching the "women's" 800m the past few years? It's a total joke.
Multiplication wrote:
kjfdlkjfklj wrote:How much is a 4.5% advantage for a 2:00 800 runner? What are we talking here 3,4 seconds?
4.5% times 2:00 is 5.40 seconds.
That's not how it works.
The same way it's harder to go from 5 minute miles to 4 minute miles than 6 minute to 5 minute, a 4.5% performance improvement will be much less than a 4.5% time difference as each drop gets exponentially harder.
In real terms for example a 9 second 100m might be 100% better in performance than 10 seconds, even though it's only 10% better in time.
I call it the Intersex and Women's 800m.
Shouldn't Intersex events be part of the paralympics instead?
I had been thinking that the gain from 'full' doping could be around 4% in women and 2% in men, so .3 per 100m (M) and .6 per 100m (W) roughly. For women's 800m, that gives 4.8 seconds.
If this research says 1.8-2.8% for androgens, is there other doping that can make up 'the rest'? This is based off looking at old times when we can assume the far out WRs were doped up to the gills on everything possible.
We can already see how much Semenya's times have varied with low and high T, they beat both this estimate and mine too (up to 7-8 seconds). I wonder if that is an extreme case (hence sticking out like a sore thumb), or if all estimates are not 'maxed out' cases.
I believe this was first reported in the prestigious scientific journal "DUH!".
Indeed. I'll be curious to see if the data list individual levels of fT (anonomously of course) . And are there suspected intersex included? Those numbers should be easy to spot (and identity if data is provided per event, ie 800).
[quote]Jim Houx wrote:
Are you kidding? Of course they have an advantage, Castor S and all of the chicks with D's are making a mockery of our sport, this much is obvious. The real question is what will the governing bodies do about it? Most likely nothing. [quote]Commissioned by the IAAF v CAS wrote:
Caster does not have a D. She has a V.
How much advantage? Try 2:02 to 1:55:
https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/south-africa/caster-semenya-242560#progression
It says the competitive advantage from one female to another can be 4.5 seconds.
Those that bridge the gender gap it could be way more. Up to 13 seconds if they are full man.
Regardless of what this "research" shows, you have to agree that there are a few "women" in the 800 that look like men. The bulky upper bodies and the fact that they do not wear the little underwear shorts that most other women competitors wear...
When did the athletes consent to their doping tests be used for research ?
I have no problem with female athletes with naturally high testosterone. All the best athletes have some sort of genetic advantage over others. I do have a problem with athletes with, or with part of, a y chromosome in women's races.
Rupp doesn't appear to have a lot of testosterone? For male distance runners, I would say there is a limit somewhere below the norm, as heavy muscles are a disadvantage.
:
new rules required wrote:
Good. Now get rid of sex categories form competition and replace them with 3 or 4 testosterone categories.
This is a possible solution, but only if you kept it to 2 testosterone categories...because 3 or 4 is a 50% to 100% increase in the time-duration of a meet, and almost certainly includes a cost-increase.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday