f33d wrote:
Pronation reduces the forces to upper joints.
Of course it also reduces them for the lower feet, but you tend to pronate less on a soft surface, so the forces can be even higher on some joints.
f33d wrote:
Pronation reduces the forces to upper joints.
Of course it also reduces them for the lower feet, but you tend to pronate less on a soft surface, so the forces can be even higher on some joints.
Cement wrote:
https://youtu.be/VqOoC2UDzBYI noticed most elites while running in these parks before a marathon, choose to run on the grass rather than on the cement trail. Is this an evidence that for people who train with quality high speed workouts it is better to avoid as much as possible running on roads and cements trails?
I have no idea on the science here, but if I start feeling achy and know my shoes are good, then I usually hit the treadmill for a week and do my normal runs, and then invariably feel good afterward.
I agree with the comments that running in a variety of surfaces is best practice.
I recommend the following, though I don't have research to back it up...
Most runs on dirt.
Up to 1 run per week on grass
Very little pavement, unless you are training for a paved race. If training for a paved 1/2 marathon on pavement, work your way up to having 10-11 miles on pavement during a single run, plus another run or two on pavement during the week.
I have a cement pond at my house in Beverly Hills. Miss Jane Hathaway is coming over later--whooo doggie, she looks good in a swim suit. Maybe I can cure her of lesbianism?
Bad Wigins wrote:
It's evidence that their coach thinks so, but it's a myth. In those cushiony pillow shoes everyone wears, surface hardness is a princess-and-pea issue, completely irrelevant.
Surface stability does matter, and grass is not stable. Or natural. Nature doesn't mow the grass, the real stuff is too tall to run through at all.
Various herbivores mow the grass.
Worst advice on here for a while.
Someone asked coach of El G how much road running he did. 'None'!
Jethro Bodean wrote:
I have a cement pond at my house in Beverly Hills. Miss Jane Hathaway is coming over later--whooo doggie, she looks good in a swim suit. Maybe I can cure her of lesbianism?
Thank you Jethro, that made me laugh out loud.
Many imbeciles plant silver maples too close to sidewalks, guaranteed disaster for sidewalks. Works same way when planted too close to clay pipe sewers.
Not a doctor wrote:
This is mostly true. The basic laws of physics mean that no matter what surface you run on the same amount of force is going into your legs. Force doesn't just magically disappear because you are running on a soft surface. The force you push into the ground will be equal to the force that goes back into your leg. So really running surface has nothing to do with it.
Right, force is identical on the beach or on a slab of granite. We all know it feels identical. Nothing to see here guys.
Not a doctor wrote:
This is mostly true. The basic laws of physics mean that no matter what surface you run on the same amount of force is going into your legs. Force doesn't just magically disappear because you are running on a soft surface. The force you push into the ground will be equal to the force that goes back into your leg. So really running surface has nothing to do with it.
Actually, your physics is off. The force can be lessened by increasing the time of contact. Like try running into a brick wall vs. a cushioned wall. The brick wall stops you faster (bigger force) while the cushioned wall applies a smaller force over a longer amount of time. Thus cushioned shoes provide a smaller force over a longer time.
Melvin Treebender wrote:
I think it would be somewhat foolish to say that dirt/grass/asphalt/cement WOULD NOT be the order you would go IF staying injury free was your only criteria.
It seems obvious that if you want to compete on cement...
Did I miss anything?
Yes, you missed the precious explanation that cement is simply a powder that when mixed with water and aggregate forms a material called concrete. No one in the history of our sport has competed on cement.
Not a doctor wrote:
This is mostly true. The basic laws of physics mean that no matter what surface you run on the same amount of force is going into your legs. Force doesn't just magically disappear because you are running on a soft surface. The force you push into the ground will be equal to the force that goes back into your leg. So really running surface has nothing to do with it.
The total amount of force is the same, but that's not what usually causes bone injuries. The "jerk," which is the rate of change of acceleration, is the main culprit of bone stress injuries. And harder surfaces do in fact increase the jerk per step as the vertical acceleration of your leg is immediately changed as it comes in contact with the ground rather than cushioned and gradually changed as it would be on a soft surface.
Not a doctor wrote:
This is mostly true. The basic laws of physics mean that no matter what surface you run on the same amount of force is going into your legs. Force doesn't just magically disappear because you are running on a soft surface. The force you push into the ground will be equal to the force that goes back into your leg. So really running surface has nothing to do with it.
Please take a science class. You are way off.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:It's evidence that their coach thinks so, but it's a myth. In those cushiony pillow shoes everyone wears, surface hardness is a princess-and-pea issue, completely irrelevant.
Surface stability does matter, and grass is not stable. Or natural. Nature doesn't mow the grass, the real stuff is too tall to run through at all.
Various herbivores mow the grass.
You're the third moran who thinks managed pastures are part of nature. How often do you expect a herd of wild buffalo to pass by and create a route for you? And when they do, you'll be stepping in shit every few seconds, and it won't be even, there will be clumps everywhere.
Worst advice on here for a while.
everyone who debates me is reduced to ad-hominem right from the start.
Someone asked coach of El G how much road running he did. 'None'!
Then they asked where he raced: "track!"
Once again, princess and pea. The cushioning in trainers is already softer than necessary.
Resident Engineer wrote:
"Cement"'is a powder that is an ingredient of concrete. Sidewalks and roads are made of concrete, not cement.
"Asphalt" roads and trails are also concrete, i.e. they are made of more than one ingredient, bound together. That's why contract plans often specify "cement concrete" or "asphaltic concrete."
I prefer to run on freshly mowed asphalt roads
scorpion_runner wrote:
Uneven Steven wrote:What third world country do you live in with such poor sidewalks? Detroit?
Nope. Chicago, and I used to live in New York. There are a lot of imperfections with sidewalks compared to the roads. Poor sidewalks have nothing to do with monetary or financial status. Sidewalks in neighborhoods take a beaten, especially in the burbs. Now, in the downtown area, the sidewalks will be close to perfect, but not so much in other areas.
Really? Ours are fine here. I don't think I've seen a sidewalk in my life that would hurt a person.
Forces. If I hit you in the head with a pillow or a hammer with the same force, which does more damage?
Bad Wigins wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:Various herbivores mow the grass.
You're the third moran who thinks managed pastures are part of nature. How often do you expect a herd of wild buffalo to pass by and create a route for you? And when they do, you'll be stepping in shit every few seconds, and it won't be even, there will be clumps everywhere.
Worst advice on here for a while.
everyone who debates me is reduced to ad-hominem right from the start.
Someone asked coach of El G how much road running he did. 'None'!
Then they asked where he raced: "track!"
Once again, princess and pea. The cushioning in trainers is already softer than necessary.
LOL you're pretty dumb
Bad Wigins wrote:
everyone who debates me is reduced to ad-hominem right from the start.
You can get away with being a dick if you're always right, but you definitely aren't.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Then they asked where he raced: "track!"
He didn't do all his training on the track though did he... A variety of surfaces is best, but a variety excluding road where possible.
Bad Wigins wrote:Once again, princess and pea. The cushioning in trainers is already softer than necessary.
What does "softer than necessary" mean?! In cushioned shoes or not, I can feel how much harder the road is than off-road. I do most of my running off-road, up to 90 miles a week and don't get injured. That wasn't the case when I was running a lot less on the roads. The more miles I do, the more I seek out off-road runs naturally, that's just listening to what my body is saying, which is much more important than anything anyone else says.
Bad Wigins wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:Various herbivores mow the grass.
You're the third moran who thinks managed pastures are part of nature. How often do you expect a herd of wild buffalo to pass by and create a route for you? And when they do, you'll be stepping in shit every few seconds, and it won't be even, there will be clumps everywhere.
Worst advice on here for a while.
everyone who debates me is reduced to ad-hominem right from the start.
Someone asked coach of El G how much road running he did. 'None'!
Then they asked where he raced: "track!"
Once again, princess and pea. The cushioning in trainers is already softer than necessary.
So why don't they make the running track out of concrete. Why does it have give in it.
Concrete is a man made structure. Take a look in nature -if they ever let you out- mostly soft surfaces which your foot is evolved to run on. Where do Kenyans train - dirt trails.
I trained with some Ethiopians over in UK to do road races. They did all their hard work on soft surfaces.